U-19 Mens World Championship - Canada takes Seventh Place

The talent coming out of Ottawa and Kingston is not the same as it was the last decade.

If he wants another 6 rings... he better expand the talent zone.

It goes in cycles... and Kingston/Ottawa valley is dry compared to previous talent pools.

As for # of posts... no sh1t they don't mean anything... but I will accept an edgey/snarky comment/remark from someone I've read more about... rather than from some new guy tootin his horn... I'm not questioning your knowledge... just commenting on your segway into the dialogue.

Besides... spare us the suspense and answer your own and realballs questions.

Im sure carleton will still get talented/tough players, and eventually they will be defeated (should/could have been if western ran another defender at turnball when he crossed half), but they didnt and he hit a great shot.
I hope francis is successful, i have nothing against him, dont know him, but witnessed him running a few practices and was not impressed, my opinion

Not sure how im "tootin my horn", just giving my viewpoint, you think francis' team will challnge carleton, i dont, thats it.

as for the # of posts, you say it dont mean sh1t, yet you wont accept my response or my segway into the dialogue because im a new guy (on here), kinda contradicts itself?

and why would i answer that question? coach clem was the one who came on here questioning (actually stating) the fact that our guys deserve better coaches for the nat jr team, so why wont he explain/state who should be the coach? i just want to know who he thinks should coach if not francis? if you are going to criticize something, have a solution to better the situation!

i look forward to your and coach c's responses!

I agree with the Kingston area talent being weaker, but I feel the Ottawa area is in very good shape. Most people in southern Ontario didn't get a chance to see the Guardsmen juvenile (U17) team because it opted for AAU instead of OBA. Despite having 4-5 of their players underage (Grade 10s), I would argue they would have been the best U17 team at OBA's if they chose that route or at least given the Advantage Titans team all they could handle in the final. This Guardsmen team beat the U19 Guardsmen by 20+ with more size, shooters, and depth. If Carleton gets their pick of the top graduating players on this team for each of the next 2-3 years, and history seems to suggest that they do, they don't need much help from anywhere else. Just my opinion.

If you want my opinion... althought I wasn't really asked... I think Smart should be coaching the under 19 squad. He will make men of boys... and he could still assist at the senior level.

But at the senior level... I've often thought it's time to take the risk and go with a coach who is not Canadian (eliminating the biases) and who has tonnes of international experience.

There are many in Europe that would put Leo in a knot in terms of basketball experience and knowledge. Doubt this will happen any time soon given Parrish's vision.

Then again... a great Canadian basketball mind with tonnes of international experience is available... Gord Herbert is unemployed last I heard. But the bias factor remains.

Plus, that would require Wayne growing some testicles and letting Leo go.

I agree on all counts! I like the idea of the non-Canadian Senior Men's coach in particular!

I have no objection to Greg Francis or Leo Rautins on a personal level. From what I know of them I like both (unlike many who are irritated by Leo's television personna).

I also respect both for their distinguished careers as players but that carries little weight when it comes to coaching.

I just did not agree with their appointments to their respective coaching positions at the time and I do not now either.

Back to the question of the Junior Men's coach, there are plenty of other possibilities who are far more experienced coaches than Greg Francis. Chris O'Rourke, Darryl Glenn, Roy Rana just about any university or college coach in the country.

Francis is not ready yet. Let him be an assistant and learn the ropes before appointing him as a head coach. I'm sure that he will be a good coach down the line but let him get in line and pay his dues as a coach before the job of head coach.

In addition Francis had ties to the NEDA program and could not be unbiased in his decision-making. It appeared that he and Canada Basketball had a point to prove in the face of the program being scrapped.

Also, when Canada is represented internationally we should have a fair and open tryout to select our team. At least we do that at the Senior level.

Tryouts should be open to all players born in Canada regardless of where they are presently playing basketball.There should be no pre-selection critereon when a team represents us on an international level.

Leo seems more like a politician up for election, shaking hands and kissing babies, with his "assistants" doing the coaching
i thnk we dropped the ball getting rid of triano...he cant coach canada, but he can help with the US olympic team AND coach in the NBA, something seriously WRONG there.
i will concur with both your posts about the jr nats, orourke, smart, oliver, raso would do a much better job, just wonder about time and commitments to their university teams, if that would interfere?
good discussion, thanks CC

[quote="gnote"]Leo seems more like a politician up for election, shaking hands and kissing babies, with his "assistants" doing the coaching
i thnk we dropped the ball getting rid of triano...he cant coach canada, but he can help with the US olympic team AND coach in the NBA, something seriously WRONG there.
i will concur with both your posts about the jr nats, orourke, smart, oliver, raso would do a much better job, just wonder about time and commitments to their university teams, if that would interfere?
good discussion, thanks CC[/quote]

You drew me in gnote!

I don't like to be negative I keep hoping Canada Basketball has an epiphany and starts to "get it".

Unfortunately I do not see it happening. The U.S. comes with coaches at all levels people like Coach K, Jay Wright, Jamie Dixon and they have a few other things on the go, if I'm not mistaken.

Hell Triano works in their system now. How dumb does that make us look?

What Triano was able to do with the Canadian Olympic team in 2000 was incredible. The coaching fraternity world wide took note... and off Jay's career soared. Looking back... what a shame that the "frozen cakes salesman" (Fred Nykamp) showed Jay the door... and then brought in pretty boy "goldie locks" to replace him. Still angers me

I don't agree with Raso... he still has his basketball knowledge... but his relationship building has deteriorated far too much. O'Rourke and Oliver yes... and I would lean on Oliver a bit more.

I had a conversation with Mark Walton several weeks ago... he was beaming about Greg's ability and potential as a university coach. It was Mark that told me that Greg has developed this outstanding reputation with the basketball folks out west. The basketball community in the western provinces hold him in very high regard... hence my comment a few days ago.

Back about Jay... imagine how good the Raps might be if Jay can re-create that kind of team cohesion with the talent he has now. No doubt egos in professional sports won't make it an easy task but if they buy into his team philosophies we will be in for a great few years of basketball.

How could anyone not respect Mark Walton's opinion? He is an icon.

My point is give Francis some time, I'm sure he'll get there!

I say go with our best we do not need to placate the West or the East or Quebec or anybody! If BC has the ten best players in the country then let them represent us and let the rest raise their game!

Chris Oliver is in my opinion the best young Canadian coach in the game. Maybe Darryl Glenn is on his level.

Unfortunately I drew a blank when trying to come up with his name. I got Chris O'Rourke also an up-and-comer.(a Chris thing) Let Francis learn from guys like these.

petro We'll be paying for Nykamp for a LONG time!

What indicates Parrish is any better?

Did Francis actually coach before he got the neda/jr national team job? did he coach a hs team or anything? and if not, how the heck did he get that job?
jay triano CANT coach the cnd national team but CAN be hired by the us...ya that makes those in charge of cnd basketball look really DUMB. and then we hire someone with ZERO coaching experience? DUMB. and you have leo commenting on jay's coaching with the raptors on national tv! crazy.
oliver would be a great nat jr coach, i beilieve windsor was the ONLY team to beat carleton last year??

*

http://www.basketball.ca/en/hm/inside.php?sid=1&id=572

That link has some of his coaching experience.

Quoted from the link above:

"As much as Francis achieved on the court he always maintained a passion for coaching. While playing overseas, he was a head coach for a high school in Lebanon and Mid-Chesitre College in England. As his passion developed stronger, Francis put his playing career on hold to become a full-time assistant coach. At Monmouth, Francis helped lead the university into the NCAA Tournament where they lost to Duke in the opening round. Yet, the lure of playing brought Francis back as he resumed both playing and coaching in Israel the following year."

"Without any regrets Francis became the men’s national development coach on May 28, 2004. In July of the same year, Francis served as an assistant coach to Dave Crook on the Young Men’s (Under-20) National Team as they qualified for the FIBA Under-21 World Championship for the first time in the program's history."


These two paragraphs sum up the extent of the experience for a person placed in charge of the National Development program.

He was head coach of a high school in Lebanon and a high school in England. He was an assistant coach at Monmouth a mid D-1 college for how many years? He coached in Israel at an unspecified level. His stint with the U-21 was after his appointment.

Does that seem adequate to anyone as qualifying a person to head up the National Development program for a country hoping to compete with the best in the world?

How can you be in charge of development if you never been a head coach more than a year in any given program even at a high school level?

Is Leo Rautins any more qualified at the Senior level? Has he ever coached prior to this appointment?

I said I did not want to be negative and it is not my intention to tear down the game in Canada but we need better decisions from the top down.

I agree with the 'Oliver' statements

How can you say Roy Rana would be a better coach than Greg Francis, what has he coached besides stacked Eastern teams? Have you ever seen him play ? Greg Francis is a real player and coach.