U-19 Mens World Championship - Canada takes Seventh Place

Coach bob...

I'm not defending Greg... but I will take the liberty to assume the role of devils advocate.

Without prejudice, you have to assume the panel of "experts" who ultimately felt Greg was the right person to, first be in charge of player development, and then later head coach of the Junior Nats, did their due dilligence.

Canada Basketball, being a not for profit organization, is structured in such a way that there is a Board of Directors to be accountable to and a Policy and Procedure that must be adhered... i.e. in terms of human resources, and specifically in this case, in terms of a hiring competition process.

I'm sure they consulted with various basketball people in Canada, and abroad, and the consensus was... Greg was the right fit.

Of course, there were other folks who might have been more qualified in terms of experience, but we all know in a competition process... that is not the only factor to consider.

I think what the "hiring team" found in Greg was a sound fundamental player who has always been a student of the game and who's passion for self betterment was fierce. I'm sure the hiring team was satisfied that Greg already had a strong knowledge of the game through his playing days and would be ready to seamlessly translate that into coaching. But perhaps the most important competency the hiring team was assured of... was that Greg had the kind of communication skills and relationship building skills Canada Basketball expects in order to develop young talent, and for that young talent to fall in love with representing Canada at the senior level.

I generally get that you guys, via this discussion, feel he wasn't the right guy.

I also don't consider "I saw him run a practice and I wasn't impressed" as proof that Greg is not qualified. Please... was it one practice???

You guys have brought nothing tangible, no clear evidence, to suggest Greg wasn't the right guy to coach this team.

ANd you can't tell me that placing 7th in this tournament is your evidence... because how do you know that he didn't get these guys to play above themselves. We are hyped about Cory and Tristan and Arop being top notch players... but look how the field is levelled when they are against the best of the world.

Further, teams like Australia, Croatia, Spain... pretty much the rest of the world except US and Canada... have their teams working together for at least a couple of years. I know for fact the Croatian team has been together for at least 4 years... yes 4 years. They were competing at the Under 16 Cadet European CHampionships 3 summers ago.

Yeah... we can dump on Greg for not medalling or choosing certain kid(s). We can also argue that "so and so" should've coached the team not Greg. But in the end it's all speculation, and opinion... unless you have something that is evidence based.

You're asking us to suspend disbelief as it were. Its hard in the case of Canada Basketball. After all the current regime re-hired Leo. But okay petro....

They do have a track record that is less than brilliant. We were not privy to the selection process so it is hard to comment on something we don't know about.

One thing is I'm sure Greg will get better as a coach but me I'd would have gone with a more experienced coach with a proven track record as a head coach.

I see what you're saying about coaching being about more than just the on-court stuff but really the on-court stuff is the bottom line.

Oh and petro you did say you were playing devil's advocate.

First to Baller: yes Francis was/is a great player, doesnt mean he can coach, just ask bird, isiah, magic!!!
2nd to petro: no it wasnt "1 practice", i dont want to bash francis, just dont think he is the best guy for the job of NATIONAL JUNIOR TEAM COACH...thats all, strictly my opinion and i very well could be wrong. I simply asked CC who HE thought should be the coach, HIS opinion. Since im some 270 posts less than you, doesnt mean i dont know sh1t, cuz i do.
3rd to CC: because i will admit I DONT KNOW, do you need some type of coaching level certificate to be a national team/provincial team coach and if so what level? and doesnt it take years to get that because you need so many hours of experience, and how the heck did Leo get it if im right?

Beyond the three levels of coaching at the Provincial level, there is a higher level . These have requirements in terms of actual coaching experience to receive the practical level although they have recently been re-vamped.

This is the National Coaching Institute it has very stringent requirements, I would compare it to a doctorate in university.

It is open to question whether our national coaches have completed such requirements but I do not have access to such information!

Found this:

Levels 4 and 5 of the NCCP program represent the top levels of professional training for coaches. These levels prepare coaches for leadership roles in national and international sport, and ensure they will be effective within the high-performance sport system.

Levels 4 and 5 consist of an applied study program of 20 tasks which can be completed through full-time residence at a National Coaching Institute or through a combination of Home Study and Technical courses. Level 3 NCCP certification and approval from your National Sport Organization are prerequisites for entry. A physical education degree or equivalent experience in high-performance sport is highly recommended.

gnote... something I found to support your arguement a little.

First off, just to set the table and so I don't forget it, it's pretty necessary to look at the system a team is running, especially in international ball. No one is going to confuse the Canadian national team for a half court set offense. At times when I saw Canada play in this tournament they made Mark Few's offense look like I was watching the San Antonio Spurs. The point being is that the Canadians more or less went out there and just played basketball. You can tell this because the leading assist man for Canada was five-star 2010 recruit Cory Joseph and he only averaged 1.9 assists per game. So try not to be too stunned when you see supposed guard/wing Mangisto Arop only averaging 0.9 assists per game. He was fourth on the team! What this does tell us is that their is going to be a major learning curve for these guys. The offense that Mark Few runs, while it is full of run-n-gun style of play, is very methodical and complex in the half court and this will really slow the international players down at the get-go.

Full article...

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2009/7/13/947272/a-brief-analysis-of-the-gonzaga

Another thing to consider is who else was in the running for such this position - a newly created program with uncertain funding with an organization that hadn't/hasn't demonstrated the ability to stick develop talent in this manner. Would Rana leave EC for such a full time job? How about Smart? Any other leading developer of youth talent? Francis very well may have been the best person available - under these circumstances.

Gnote, while not all player make great coaches, some do, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Greg Popovic to name a few. My point is that some who can play the game at a high level generally is better equiped to relate to players than someone who can even bounce a ball with any proficency, and relating to players is what high level coaching is all about, ask any NBA coach.

baller, to me its usually NOT the stars that make the best coaches, i think because the players they are coaching arent as good as they are/were and their expectations are too high. Pretty sure either van gundy cant play, but they can coach! also, popovich didnt play in the nba (im pretty sure)
petro, i have heard that we didnt have much of an offense
CC, would be interesting to know what levels francis/rautins have!

[quote="gnote"]baller, to me its usually NOT the stars that make the best coaches, i think because the players they are coaching arent as good as they are/were and their expectations are too high. Pretty sure either van gundy cant play, but they can coach! also, popovich didnt play in the nba (im pretty sure)
petro, i have heard that we didnt have much of an offense
CC, would be interesting to know what levels francis/rautins have![/quote]

You were saying great player does not equal great coach. Popovic did not play in the NBA. Riley was a bench guy who averaged around five points a game.

Phil Jackson was a defensive star and challenged on offence. He too came off the bench. They were all far from great NBA players. Those examples were not very well chosen. I agree most great players do not make great coaches with very few exceptions.

I had heard other coaches comments on Francis lack of structure although I admit I've only seen him coach a couple of times. I just thought he wasn't the right guy in part because of his ties to the NEDA program and because of his inexperience.

I never said they were great players, Pop was invited to the US Olympic team so he must have had something of a game, J Van Gundy played at Nazerath, Francis is no star player either but what I am saying is that as a player its easier to respect a coach who is somewhat proficent at the game than someone with no skills what so ever, you dont have to be player to coach but it certainly helps when trying to understand what players are trying to accomplish, if you can't bounce a ball players are going to listen, at the higher levels no one is going to listen to Rana.

bigballer,

You seem to have issues with Coach Rana.

He has earned a lot of respect in the basketball community.

I just think he is a lousy coach, with no game, nothing more than that.