leo rautins on GTA basketball...

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leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by ballin45 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:26 pm

recap:

It was during court cuts at 4pm today and he pretty much ripped basketball up here saying, guys go to unis in the states andget benched, average no PT, never will make the nba, indirectly said we have no talent here, and was just ripping Canada ball.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by acie earl 55 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:21 pm

http://video.thescore.com/watch/on-the-brink-episode-five

Actually, he was ripping those playing AAU tournaments and playing rather than practicing and then thinking that just making an NCAA team to sit on the bench is the best way to go - particularly the one's that aren't the top players out of crop. He thinks better off getting better experience actually playing CIS is better for development for the National Team.

Not saying I'm a fan of his "coaching", but until there's more than Magliore making the league, his point is correct. Will the current group of Toronto players down south break the mould? Except for Tristan, and maybe Junior or Myck, I would be surprised to see any of them make the NBA.

That being said, this crop of Toronto talent "can" be competitive on the International stage if Canada Basketball can get itself together with long-lasting programs for players to continue to grow together. Instead of complaining about AAU's, why not have the U16 and U18 teams play together over the summer on CB's dime? Build in some practice time and great facilities/coaching over the summer instead of this REDA/NEDA nonsense. You'll grow some great teams without players having to choose between their existing schools or not going Prep.
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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by tart11 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 pm

Ontario and Canada basketball need to do something to retain these kids.

Basketball Canada needs to bring NEDA back, but there is no money. We can't afford to pay for facilities and coaches, the most fundamental aspects of any program. Don't even consider shoe deals and paying for these kids to compete in international tournaments. THe funding is pathetic, there is enough kids paying membership fees that money should be around.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by tb11 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:26 pm

Leo did nothing at all to "rip" up Canada basketball. All he did was state facts and backed them up with proof. It is true that there is a problem with high school basketball in Canada and he's just publicly acknowledging that. Basketball in Canada needs to improve their programs to narrow the gap between them and the U.S. We have high school stars going south to play basketball and all they do is sit on the bench for 4 years and comeback.

Don't you think there's a problem with that?

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by basketball IQ on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:39 pm

tb11
I dont have a issue with that. If that is where the individual is being placed on the bench....... so many scenarios , but at the end of the road, out of those kids who sat the bench for 4 years, how many came home with a degree? How many of those could afford to pay $30-45, 000 a year for education or even here in Canada? So if the number of Athletes who jump to go south and come back with a degree, did the individual(s) fail?

Tart 11and tb11 - I agree with you

Here is a list of Canadians who went on to the NBA: Leo Rautins made a point about NBA:

* Joel Anthony
* Norm Baker
* Hank Biasatti (born in Italy, but a Canadian citizen)
* Ron Crevier
* Bobby Croft
* Samuel Dalembert (born in Haiti, naturalized in Canada, represents Canadan
internationally)
* Rick Fox (dual citizen of The Bahamas and Canada; represented Canada
internationally) - Drafted 1991
* Stewart Granger -
* Lars Hansen (born in Denmark, naturalized in Canada, represented Canada
internationally)
* Bob Houbregs
* Todd MacCulloch - Drafted 1999
* Jamaal Magloire - drafted 1999 or 2000
* Steve Nash (born in South Africa, naturalized in Canada, represents
Canada internationally) - Drafted 1996
* Leo Rautins
* Mike Smrek
* Gino Sovran
* Ernie Vandeweghe
* Bill Wennington
* Jim Zoet

In the last 19years roughly 4 players were drafted to the NBA that were Canadian, How many of those 4 players were drafted from a Canadian University? so the question is, when is the gap going to be closed? when we decided to treat our Athletes the way the US treat their athletes.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by wetshooter31 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:46 pm

bobby croft - is that rainer croft's dad or relative?

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by rerun on Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:16 pm

Leo Rautins is not ripping into Canadian Basketball as he is stating the truth of the game right now. What he is saying is true! However, I disagree with the NBA being the end all and be all. Most of the Kids that leave here for Prep school or JUCOs are not thinking about the NBA per say but they want to play Division 1 Basketball. THey want the basketball scholarship! They want the free education....it cost about $15, 000-17, 000 a year to go to school in Canada per year...by the time you graduate you could easily be in the hole $40, 000. That full scholarship is worth alot in the end.

That goal of reaching the NCAA is a life long dream for some people. I don't think that people can just simplify people's decision to go to the NCAA as good or bad...solely based upon if they are gonna play NBA ball or get ample playing time. Finances play a big role in it as well. They are kids who want to get out of bad neighborhoods and family situations...that is also reasons why they leave Canada. I really think people lose sight of those reasons as well. I'm a former NCAA D1 athlete! My decision to leave Canada was based upon finances. I could have gone to York, Western, University of Toronto and pay my way or accept an 85% scholarship. I accepted the scholarship and ended paying significantly less for school than if I stayed here. People are losing their minds with all this NBA talk. It's not all about making the NBA with most of these kids so Leo is off track there.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by rerun on Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:26 pm

[quote="basketball IQ"]tb11
I dont have a issue with that. If that is where the individual is being placed on the bench....... so many scenarios , but at the end of the road, out of those kids who sat the bench for 4 years, how many came home with a degree? How many of those could afford to pay $30-45, 000 a year for education or even here in Canada? So if the number of Athletes who jump to go south and come back with a degree, did the individual(s) fail?

Tart 11and tb11 - I agree with you

Here is a list of Canadians who went on to the NBA: Leo Rautins made a point about NBA:

* Joel Anthony
* Norm Baker
* Hank Biasatti (born in Italy, but a Canadian citizen)
* Ron Crevier
* Bobby Croft
* Samuel Dalembert (born in Haiti, naturalized in Canada, represents Canadan
internationally)
* Rick Fox (dual citizen of The Bahamas and Canada; represented Canada
internationally) - Drafted 1991
* Stewart Granger -
* Lars Hansen (born in Denmark, naturalized in Canada, represented Canada
internationally)
* Bob Houbregs
* Todd MacCulloch - Drafted 1999
* Jamaal Magloire - drafted 1999 or 2000
* Steve Nash (born in South Africa, naturalized in Canada, represents
Canada internationally) - Drafted 1996
* Leo Rautins
* Mike Smrek
* Gino Sovran
* Ernie Vandeweghe
* Bill Wennington
* Jim Zoet

In the last 19years roughly 4 players were drafted to the NBA that were Canadian, How many of those 4 players were drafted from a Canadian University? so the question is, when is the gap going to be closed? when we decided to treat our Athletes the way the US treat their athletes.

The last Canadian University basketball player to be drafted into the NBA was Will Njoku in 1994. He attended St. Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. He was selected by the Indiana Pacers in the second round of the draft 41st overall. He never played for them, but played professionally for 10 years in Europe and Asia. He was a 6ft-10 power forward to my knowledge. The others on the list Steve Nash (Santa Clara), Todd MacCulloch (University of Washington), Jamaal Magloire (University of Kentucky), Samuel Dalembert (Seton Hall), Joel Anthony went to Dawson College in Quebec got from the team...went to Pensecola Community college in Florida and then transferred to (University of Nevada-Las Vegas) and then blew up....Leo Rautins went to Syracuse, Bill Wennington went to St. Johns. I think it is hard to tell kids do as I say not as I do.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by tb11 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:54 pm

Yes, well said rerun. Finances are a big factor to consider when making a decision to play in the NCAA D1, but I think the problem that Leo is trying to address is the lack of basketball programs to develop young Canadian athletes. Our best high school players are going to prep schools in the states because they know that they provide the necessary funds and facilities in order to develop their skills to prepare them for a higher level of basketball.

When you compare the amount of programs and effort that the US has put into their athletes to our Canadians, you will find that the difference is far greater. This is why there is growing number of our high school athletes fleeing down south to either finish high school, or to play at the College level.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by petro on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:17 am

I have no probs with a kid going south to sit on the bench and return with a degree in their hand.

Problem is... the percentage of that happening is far too low.

Too many kids do not finish off their degree... too many kids have been given poor advice... too many kids go south without the necessary priorities and discipline... to many kids transfer to and from JUCO to D1 and back... too many kids get lost.

Yes the US puts more money into their sports etc... ONE... they have more money to do so... and... TWO... it comes at the expense of depleted academic resources... ever wonder why a Canadian education is valued so much greater than most of the American ones... even in the US???

The ignorance about CIS ball is what pains me. Most kids think it's sh1t basketball. But each year... more and more... the CIS game is getting better and better... Your top 10 Canadian teams can compete 300 of the 350 NCAA teams out there.
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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by rerun on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:36 am

I agree with what you are saying. The United States will probably always put more money into basketball than us Canadians because we are a hockey country or a culture that is obsessed with hockey. Corporate sponsors will sooner put significant money into Hockey Canada rather than Canadian Basketball. I don't think that is going to change any time soon. As I said before, I agree with you but Leo kept making references to the NBA where only a fraction of players from elite NCAA D1 schools make it in the league. It is less than 1 percent of NCAA players make the NBA so in my opinion he sounded stupid. Most kids are just trying to live the dream...most kids dream about making it big...making it big to most Canadian means doing your thing in the states..whether it is the actor trying to get into Hollywood, the Canadian rapper trying to get US mainstream radio play, or the budding Canadian high school basketball star who wants the prestige of the scholarship and the free education...a possible shot at playing in the March Madness Tournament....and for a select few a shot at the NBA. In my opinion, he wasn't clearly communicating that. It is an individual decision!

He can generalize all he wants, but, I know first hand that some of those kids that may be sitting on the bench at a US School would not be attending school in Canada without the aid of that full athletic scholarship. Some of those kids that are sitting on the bench, are better off in their personal lives than if they stayed back. I sent quite a few kids to US schools over the past few years and those kids have grown up and matured alot from their experiences down south in the US. I know for a fact that they wouldn't have gone to college or university up here. So it is not as simple or cut and dry as Leo Rautins makes it out! It easy for him to talk, he got his free education from Syracuse and his son Andy is doing so as well, but, only our elite, so called future NBA stars should accept athletic scholarships and everyone else should stay back, play CIS and pay their way. NO WAY!!! By his standards, no one should be going to the NCAA then. Devoe Joseph is not a star NCAA Player, nor is his cousin Kris Joseph, Bol Kong is not a star player, Harouna Mutombo is a good player at Western Carolina but not a star player......I can run down the whole list....who is a star player at their NCAA school right now...so I guess everyone should have stayed home because they aren't showing outright NBA potential. The only one to my knowledge who is putting up pretty good numbers is Andrew Nicholson. So he should be the only one and everyone else should have stayed here. That's my interpretation of what he said...rightly or wrongly!


Last edited by rerun on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by rerun on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:45 am

I agree that a lot of Canadian people are totally ignorant about the quality of the CIS Basketball. They don't understand how good those players are....even if they go and watch them in person. It's the same song, we don't respect Canadians until they go over to the US and get attention and garner a name for themselves in the United States. Those CIS/NCAA matchups that take place in September and early October are helping somewhat. Maybe one day a Carleton will beat a Kansas or something like that and that will open some eyes about the quality of the CIS game. We definitely need to appreciate and showcase the CIS game. More importantly, let high school students know that it is quality basketball even though it is not showacsed on major US television networks every Saturday and Sunday during the winter.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by Canada23 on Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:10 am

Leo Rautins is a clown, for him to rip Canada basketball is just a joke. He shouldn't be a figure in Canada basketball period. Kids go the US route because they have no damn choice. Leo needs to check the amount of aid Canadian schools dish out before he makes that type of comment. That only shows his ignorance and why no kid would want to play for the Canadian national team in the future. Oh wait, his son can make the squad without being one of the top players who was at the tryouts? please.... Kids go down south for two reasons, scholarship=free education and a chance to play basketball at the collegiate level. Hopefully somewhere down the road Leo will take his head out of his rear end and realize the situation kids face down here.

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by CoachPaul on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:11 am

[quote="rerun"]I agree that a lot of Canadian people are totally ignorant about the quality of the CIS Basketball. They don't understand how good those players are....even if they go and watch them in person. It's the same song, we don't respect Canadians until they go over to the US and get attention and garner a name for themselves in the United States. Those CIS/NCAA matchups that take place in September and early October are helping somewhat. Maybe one day a Carleton will beat a Kansas or something like that and that will open some eyes about the quality of the CIS game. We definitely need to appreciate and showcase the CIS game. More importantly, let high school students know that it is quality basketball even though it is not showacsed on major US television networks every Saturday and Sunday during the winter.[/quote]

I think most people know that we have a lot of talent here in Canada. The problem as has been stated many times before is finances. We produce more NHL players per capita than most other countries. Why? Because Canadians seem to value that sport more, so we fund it and build the infrastructure to create professional calibre players. Are our basketball players any less talented than the hockey players? I don't think so. I think they just aren't given enough of an opprotunity here to play in an environment and level which we need in order to create pro level players. NEDA/REDA is all fine and dandy, but you can't have every player in the country going to one school. There have to be regional facilities to start developing these kids at a VERY young age. I think the reason we have so few elite players at the highshcool/college level is because nobody gives a damn about you until you've already worked your own ass of, with your own time and money and have become good on your own. Then, Canada Basketball comes around and gives you a shot. If you perform well, they'll take the credit when in actual fact they've done nothing to develop you as a player throughout your whole life. Very few kids/families are willing to invest this time and effort into a 10 year old to turn them into an elite basketball player. If however, you have a Canada Basketball infrastructure in place to start working with kids at that age (like hockey does), then by the time they are all 16 or 17, you'll have far more kids in our country that will have a real shot at playing D1 or beyond.

Its all about numbers. If you only have 100 kids getting training, then what are the odds of one of them making it to a higher level? If you have 100,000 kids getting training then you've increased the odds. Put in the money into the infrastructure required and our kids will stay here. As the line from the movie "Field of dreams" said "Build it and they will come"!

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by acie earl 55 on Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:23 am

I found this old radio newscast from back in 1979. It's 18 year old Leo decrying the state of Canadian basketball. An interesting listen considering this threaded issue over 30 years later.

http://archives.cbc.ca/sports/more_sports/clips/17189/
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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by WaterBadgers on Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:59 pm

leo rautins is a waste man! bring back jay triano!

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Re: leo rautins on GTA basketball...

Post by rerun on Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:46 pm

Acie Earl,

That's an interesting find you have there! Leo Rautins did exactly what kids 30 years later want to do....play in the states because of the lack of exposure and opportunity. I understand Leo's frustration since it been 30 years and not that much has changed in his eyes, however, his reasons for leaving Canada then are the same ones now.

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