Silver Fox Draw

I hope I have this correct, it was edited from another site to make it easier to read,

Pool A
#1 Henry Carr
#16 - Regina Mundi
#17 - Brebeuf

Pool B
#2 D’YOUVILLE
#15 ST THOMAS MORE
#18- NORTH PARK

Pool C
#3 ST MATT’S
#14 ACMT
#19 URSULINE COLLEGE

POOL D
#4 ST GEORGE
#13 PARKSIDE
#20 SALTFLEET

POOL E
#5 ASSUMPTION
#12 BISHOP TONNOS
#21 ST FRANCIS

POOL F
#6 ST MARY
#11 ST ANNE
#22 MONTCALM

POOL G
#7 BLUEVALE
#10 MARTINGROVE
#23 ANCASTER

POOL H
#8 ST THOMAS AQUINAS
#9 HERMAN
#24 GLENDALE

FRIDAY JANUARY 9
TIME GAME SITE
9 AM 1 STA VS HERMAN @ GLENDALE
10:30 AM 2 RMC VS HENRY CARR @ GLENDALE
9 AM 3 ST MARY’S VS MONTCALM @ SALTFLEET
10:30 AM 4 SALTFLEET VS PARKSIDE @ SALTFLEET
9 AM 5 ACMT VS URSULINE @ BISHOP TONNOS
10:30 AM 6 BISHOP TONNOS VS ST FRANCIS @ BISHOP TONNOS
9 AM 7 STM VS NORTH PARK @ MOHAWK COLLEGE
10:30 AM 8 ANCASTER VS BLUEVALE @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

2:30 PM 9 GLENDALE VS HERMAN @ GLENDALE
4 PM 10 HENRY CARR VS BREBEUF @ GLENDALE
2:30 PM 11 MONTCALM VS ST ANNE @ SALTFLEET
4 PM 12 PARKSIDE VS ST GEORGE @ SALTFLEET
2:30 PM 13 URSULINE VS ST MATT’S @ BISHOP TONNOS
4 PM 14 ST FRANCIS VS ASSUMPTION @ BISHOP TONNOS
2:30 PM 15 NORTH PARK VS D’YOUVILLE @ MOHAWK COLLEGE
4 PM 16 BLUEVALE VS MARTINGROVE @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

8PM- MACMASTER VS LAKEHEAD UNIVERSITY

7:30 PM 17 GLENDALE VS STA @ GLENDALE
9 PM 18 BREBEUF VS RMC @ GLENDALE
7:30 PM 19 ST ANNE VS ST MARY’S @ SALTFLEET
9 PM 20 SALTFLEET VS ST GEORGE @ SALTFLEET
7:30 PM 21 ST MATT’S VS ACMT @ BISHOP TONNOS
9 PM 22 BISHOP TONNOS VS ASSUMPTION @ BISHOP TONNOS
7:30 PM 23 D’YOUVILLE VS STM @ MOHAWK COLLEGE
9 PM 24 MARTINGROVE VS ANCASTER @ MOHAWK COLLEGE













SATURDAY JANUARY 10
TIME GAME
9 AM 25 POOL A3 VS POOL H3 @ GLENDALE
9 AM 26 POOL B3 VS POOL G3 @ SALTFLEET
9 AM 27 POOL C3 VS POOL F3 @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

10:30 AM 28 POOL D3 VS POOL E3 @ SALTFLEET
10:30 AM 29 POOL A2 VS POOL H2 @ GLENDALE
10:30 AM 30 POOL B2 VS POOL G2 @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

NOON 31 POOL C2 VS POOL F2 @ GLENDALE
NOON 32 POOL D2 VS POOL E2 @ SALTFLEET
NOON 33 POOL A1 VS POOL H1 @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

1:30 PM 34 POOL B1 VS POOL G1 @ GLENDALE
1:30 PM 35 POOL D1 VS POOL E1 @ SALTFLEET
1:30 PM 36 POOL C1 VS POOL F1 @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

7 PM 37 WINNER OF GAME 25 VS WINNER OF GAME 28 @ SALTFLEET
7 PM 38 WINNER OF GAME 26 VS WINNER OF GAME 27 @ GLENDALE
7 PM 39 WINNER OF GAME 29 VS WINNER OF GAME 32 @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

8:30 PM 40 WINNER OF GAME 30 VS WINNER OF GAME 31 @ GLENDALE
8:30 PM 41 WINNER OF GAME 33 VS WINNER OF GAME 35 @ SALTFLEET
8:30 PM 42 WINNER OF GAME 34 VS WINNER OF GAME 36 @ MOHAWK COLLEGE

8PM –MACMASTER VS LAKEHEAD UNIVERSITY


SUNDAY JANUARY 11 {CHAMPIONSHIP BRACKETS} AT MCMASTER UNIVERSITY
TIME GAME#
9 AM 43 ROACH-TOWLER FINAL- WINNER GAME 37 VS WINNER GAME 38
9 AM 44 MACLEAN-NEWTON FINAL- LOSER GAME 39 VS LOSER GAME 40
10:30 AM 45 JOE RASO FINAL- WINNER GAME 39 VS WINNER GAME 40
NOON 46 KEN ORMEROD FINAL- LOSER GAME 41 VS LOSER GAME 42
1:30 PM 47 BOB KNUCKLE/ TEACHER’S LIFE/ SILVER FOX FINAL- WINNER GAME 41 VS
WINNER GAME 42

Henry Carr Will Take It

Hopefully DY vs Carr final

I've seen St. Matt's from Ottawa and they are solid. They have tough bigs on that team that may make the difference against Carr or D'Youville. St. Matt's guards are good too.
This tournament has great teams at 1-2-3. Don't know anything about St. George from Vancouver and the rest are not really expected to contend for the top spot but anything could happen.
All the best teams that would have filled out the top 10 at the Fox are at St. Mike's.

St. George's is the #1-ranked team in British Columbia. They rely most on three excellent prospects: 6'6" inside-outside forward Luke Braund, 6'7" athletic forward Joshua Robertson, and highly regarded grade 11 guard Emerson Murray. Unfortunately, Braund went down with an injury before the break and may not be able to play at the Fox.

Updated draw.
Looks like #5 and #6 were switched along with #11 and #12, for scheduling issues.

#1- HENRY CARR
#2- D’YOUVILLE
#3- ST MATT’S
#4- ST GEORGE
#5- ASSUMPTION
#6- ST MARY’S
#7- BLUEVALE
#8- ST THOMAS AQUINAS
#9- HERMAN
#10-MARTINGROVE
#11- ST ANNE
#12- BISHOP TONNOS
#13-CENTRAL COMMERCE
#14-ACMT
#15-ST THOMAS MORE
#16- REGINA MUNDI
#17-BREBEUF
#18-NORTH PARK
#19- URSULINE COLLEGE
#20- SALTFLEET
#21- ST FRANCIS
#22- MONTCALM
#23- ANCASTER
#24- GLENDALE

Yes, there was a scheduling change. I didn't check to see if the changed the pools. I editted the first post in this thread with the new schedule. I will confirm if there were changes to the pools.

Which St.Francis is it? Is it Xavier

St. Francis from St. Catharines

WOW... to have 3 teams in between the 2 obligitory host teams (Saltfleet, Glendale) is incredibly bad. St. Francis, Montcalm and Ancaster are weak weak, weak.
No place for the #1 and #2 teams in Hamilton, Orchard Park and Parkside, at this tournament?

I know for a fact those two teams are not doing any other tournaments that weekend. Strange goings on in the hammer!!

I don't get it at all.

Basketball in Hamilton seems to be in disarray!

Two many power broker wannabes who have their own agendas.

Some very vindictive stuff going on, people need to move on!

There is some stuff in the GTA but not like this!

I have always respected the people in Hamilton but really where is all this going?

Its all so divisive. Look at their message board. So much hating.

After talking to some out of the hammer, not too hard to see where the hate comes from. Those two teams I mentioned are heavy with Hamilton U-Play rep players involved with AAU as well as OBA. They are in direct competition with a declining Blessed Sacrament club who are heavy with those power brokers that you speak of. They are not dealing well with the exodus of talent away from their club, along with these players bucking the usual trend to play for the catholic schools as well as the local university and appear to have put an all too obvious damper on the talented teams.
Many of these players will head stateside or anywhere else other than stay in Hamilton. Interesting.....
Too many coincidences and strange omissions to be left to chance. Much like the MT/Silver Fox debacle in previous years, it's all nasty business. It's unfortunate for these seniors that in their last year or two, they were caught in the middle of a group of spiteful grumps.

I know that what you are saying about the club/AAU basketball is at the root of much of this.

Blessed Sacrament was once THE program in Hamilton but things have changed and players have been jumping from program to program.

Hamilton U-Play is definitely on the rise. Some players are even playing club/AAU ball in Mississauga.

Even Catholic vs. Public High School is a venomous debate in H-town. It doesn't even come into play in the GTA.

All of these factors have caused schisms that appear irreversible on the landscape of Hamilton basketball.

I don't know if it's irreversible but some improvement can be made with some progressive minds at the helm. Unforunately, they're in short supply. I'm not from the area but know enough people to get the gist of the problems there.

The Hamilton leagues are separated by Catholic and Public Boards, not by tiers. You'll have teams like Parkside and Orchard Park demolishing other teams in league play and yet never meeting each other because one is in the east division and the other is in the west division. They'll meet up eventually in the championship game but in the meantime, never get any competition during the season except for tournaments.
Too many teams are in the league so dividing teams into east/west makes it manageable, but tiers would make it logical.
Then the smaller Catholic league (with much bigger schools) has teams playing each other twice with much more competition but never being challenged by their neighbouring Public high school. I've seen really heated arguements between adults about who's better when the only way to answer that is to play each other. That never happens as you have seen in the Fox draw. I have to assume this is their way to avoid the meeting and to perpetuate the myth that Catholic is always better in Hamilton.

This coincidence of the convenors of the Fox and the coaches of the Orchard Park team having a very public falling out might have something to do with it too. Or the fact that Parkside beat the covenors team in last years hotly contested city championship. Or that some assistants from a prominant university team have infiltrated the city high schools as coaches and are promoting future prospects or burying other players headed elsewhere. So many personal agendas at work, I can't keep them straight.

I think when certain individuals are gone from the scene, an improvement will definitely be seen. The U-Play program is run by a local public school teacher new to the city and it's long standing rivalries and alliances. This is probably why he is so successful. Players and parents alike are tired of the politics and shouldn't have to drive to Mississauga to play some good ball . The new club offers straight up player development and high level competition. About time...
And I got this from my friends from the hammer, all over a couple of beers over the holidays.

But...let the games begin and maybe next year's tournament will show some sign that people are listening to the criticisms and have learned something.

Yes, I see what you're saying rec.

Its just that the old guard has been there so long its hard to conceive of Hamilton basketball without them.

Vaillancourt and Washington are coaches I know and respect.

A re-birth may be painful but it can happen I suppose.

The clock may be ticking on the old regime but they will go down kicking and screaming,no doubt!

Hey, I'm no spring chicken myself!

I think there are more dynamics working here and it has a historical perspective. The Hamilton Public board let their wishes be known many years ago when they booted or asked Hamilton Catholic to develop their own league. This was mainly due to the blatant recruiting and other misconduct exhibited by Hamilton Catholic. The Catholic board was perceived as having the newer facilities and the better known coaches in the community as the public board was getting old and did not put as much emphasis on athleics. Perception became reality as there was a constant migration of good young talent as well as good young coaches at their schools. Remember that Raso, the Dalys, Maga et al played in their system. Hamilton public had to go through Niagara to get to Ofssa while Hamilton catholic goes through Halton. Many inner city kids still attend the catholic schools while new suburban public schools are developing programs. Cathedral marches to a beat of their own as they were accused of most of the transfer and recruiting violations. They not only received transfers from the public board but from their own schools and league and are demonized by some in the hammer. The public board schools get little pub because they do not venture far from home like Hamilton catholic and Halton teams do. With new powers developing in the city and Halton becoming much stronger. Assumption Burlington, Holy Trinity Oakville and STA Oakville have handled Hamilton Catholic this year therefore there is nervous energy in Hamilton. The Silver Fox was a premier event in the basketball calender but the exclusion of some Toronto schools along with local powers such as Cathedral, OP, Dundas Parkside and Holy Trinity draws scrutiny and criticism from some people. The landscape is changing and some of the old guard do not want to acknowledge it or are not in tune.
Old grudges must be cast aside if this tournament will once again be one, if not, the most prestigious in the province. They must also reach out to St. Mike's and come to an agreement so both are not on the same weekend.

Interesting history lesson but unfortunately for Catholic, things are changing in the hammer. These old boys, including the Fox boys, need to look around and see why.

Isn't it all about getting the best teams out there? If I were organizing a tournament, that would be my criteria. I don't have to like the team's coach or the school board that they belong to, I'd just want to see the great athletes that work hard all year to be at their best. Call me crazy but I love watching great basketball.

Arrrgggg....and they say women are petty and jealous.

People should always respect and never abuse authority.

At the risk of being overly dramatic:

In the 70's, Peter Gabriel wrote this in a song about South-African martyr Stephen Biko:

You can blow out a candle
But you can't blow out a fire
Once the flames begin to catch
The wind will blow it higher


So it is in the Hammer the landscape is changing and the flames are beginning to catch and the wind is beginning to blow!

You cannot just do, because you can do!

The basketball community is watching now.

The Silver Fox people have turned the greatest tournament in the Province into a Tier 2 affair and divided the game in their city into two camps!

Neither can attain the level the game once held in a basketball hotbed.

Very sad to see!

Nice analogy...i'm a big Peter Gabriel fan....but I'll take it one step further and say it's about time things changed. I've heard argued ad nauseum for years how great Hamilton Catholic is compared to Public, but things are a changing. If the top Public teams were to play the top Catholic teams this year, there'd be alot of shocked people at the outcome. The Catholic fans still will never admit that they've lost their edge over Public and without facing each other, they will stick to their guns on that one. And the Fox convenors, Public school coaches and supporters to boot, continue to propogate this myth by shirking the very teams that will propel their own league into a higher status. I can't believe they didn't take this opportunity to showcase how strong Public has become and I am amazed at the shortsightedness but then again....not surprising, is it???
I still can't get over the Mother Teresa situation from a few years ago. It is basically the exact same thing as what has transpired with the hometown Parkside team this year. No respect for strong programs? Confusing...to say the least.
Some things haven't changed and it just may be the beginning of the end.

rec,

I agree why perpetuate a myth of your own invulnerability?

You burn your bridges.

I do not see Mother Teresa going back after being hugely disrespected.

But then what would I know about MT?

P.S. I thought I was the only Gabriel fan out there these days!

LOL
We are of like mind, in music and basketball etiquette.
Being nice and respectful can't hurt and usually ends up being a positive attribute.
Maybe familiarity truly does breed contempt. Seems that way in the hammer.
I see St. Mike's having to expand their tournament format in the years to come to accommodate all the requests.

You guys are right in assessing the situation in the hammer and the Fox.
But what about this,

"....hey teachers leave those kids alone, all in all your just another brick in the wall........" or should that be just several bricks short of a load when it comes to the invitees to the Silver Fox Tournament!!!!

I'm a Pink Floyd fan too...showing my age...

TO rec,,, what is your problem?? you insult the silver fox. you insult the cathlics and your talking sh!t on hooptown stedy,about us in hamilton ,first of all the cathlic leuge is a lot more competive than the publics, and thats the truth,so your sons team didnt get invited to the fox,be a proper mother and suck it up, you keep posting the same thing over and over, even on the hamilton site ,you sound like a broken record, allways parkside and op shut up already

Ohhhh, hahaha... here comes the hate that Coach Clement was talking about.
See what I mean about the Hamilton Catholic players and fans not accepting that they aren't the best. Scout, you can try to insult me all you want as it doesn't bother me a bit and only proves my point. But in case you hadn't noticed, I'm not alone in my analysis and views. No, I'm not from the hammer and therefore not associated with any of the teams mentioned and yes, they would likely beat any Hamilton Catholic team this year, but I am a fan of the game and would like to see the expected great teams at this tournament.
Your Cathedral knew the tournament was sinking and jumped ship. Good for them. Many others did it too. Can't argue that but I guess YOU can try.