ST MIKES SHOULD HAVE TO PLAY THE LOSER OF FHC & MT

c'mon OFSAA you cant sit around and do nothing about certain problems just because you are afraid who you will tick off.......everybody knows that one of the best ONTARIO teams will not even be able to compete because they lost to another best team in ontario

agree ? disagree ?

i agree
st mikes isnt a very good team and will probbaly get dominated in AAAA ofsaa
its unfair that they get a free ride to ofsaa

Plain and simple they will not!

of course they will not, but that doesnt at all make it right....if anything they have an advantage over other schools and they still get an easy ride when better players sit at home

I hear that!!!

Its the way it is!

Unfortunate but how does it change??

They won't be the last seed. Why should they be the team asked to play Carr/MT? Why not a team from Georgian Bay / Thunder Bay?
Would you ask the winner of the MAC Conference to sit out in order to get the ninth best team in the ACC a shot?

That just the way the cookie crumbles. They play in that league and as is the case, they merit the birth.

Another point, do we have the same consideration for who "deserves" the spot in other OFSAA sports? I think not.

They'll probably be two and done. C'est la vie!

itz all abowt d politcs...itz all abowt d benjaminz...bow wow wow!

With all due respect coach Clement I think you off base with this.

OFSAA, is about every sport and every association getting a bid to the provincial championships. They would have to adjust for every sport, ex. Hamilton girls basketball, London boys volleyball, ect...it would be crazy

Clearly MT and Carr are both top 5 in the province in AAAA boys basketball. But the OFSAA system is in place to give equal access to each association year after year. Keep in mind that Toronto Catholic really doesn't have that many schools. And if you really want a second bid win OFSAA or host it and you will get two bids.

It makes sense, both for basketball and for all sports, every area, league gets in....plain and simple....and honestly there are really only two great teams in Toronto Catholic.

It doesn't need to be changed

Both MT and Carr had the opportunity to declare either AA, AAA or AAAA at the beginning of this season. I actually believe that by them playing each other in the finals it will truly determine who the number 1 team in the TDCAA actually is this season. I give a lot of respect to Coach Melnik and Coach Gallacher for their decisions on this, because either of them could have decided to go lower and dominate at OFSAA however they both felt it was best for their teams to qualify at the highest level and play for the championship. It is too bad that one of these great teams does not make OFSAA... however instead of complaining about who should be and shouldn't be there... we should be congratulating every team that has qualified and looking forward to another great week of basketball and hopefully a lot of success for the GTA team representing.

[quote="youngcoach"]With all due respect coach Clement I think you off base with this.

OFSAA, is about every sport and every association getting a bid to the provincial championships. They would have to adjust for every sport, ex. Hamilton girls basketball, London boys volleyball, ect...it would be crazy

Clearly MT and Carr are both top 5 in the province in AAAA boys basketball. But the OFSAA system is in place to give equal access to each association year after year. Keep in mind that Toronto Catholic really doesn't have that many schools. And if you really want a second bid win OFSAA or host it and you will get two bids.

It makes sense, both for basketball and for all sports, every area, league gets in....plain and simple....and honestly there are really only two great teams in Toronto Catholic.

It doesn't need to be changed[/quote]

I really do not concern myself with the other sports. I am a basketball person.

Winning OFSSAA and hosting OFSSAA are both very difficult.

I think the concept that the best teams should go to OFSSAA is not outlandish at all. Honestly why could the loser of this game not have the opportunity to challenge the AAA rep?

We all know what the likely result would be.

A Provincial Championship should have all of the best teams in the Province.

The loser of this game is better than all but a handful of teams competing in Windsor and so they should be there. They would have a legitimate at winning the AAAA Championship.

By the way I do not agree St Mikes should have to play the loser.

I think that people are forgetting the purpose of OFSAA. The idea is to gather all of the top teams from each association and have them play one final tournament for a provincial champ. If you don't win your association you don't get in (with the exception of boards that have two representatives because of the number of schools that are AAAA in their board). It is not about only inviting the top teams that never play the other teams from the association it is about getting all of the associations together. Perhaps the Silver Fox, St. Mikes tournament, SOSI, etc. are about trying to get all the top teams in the province together, but OFSAA is about getting all of the top teams from the boards together. One of MT or FHC will not win their board and thus do not deserve a spot at OFSAA. There may be some very good teams that don't get in and some teams that do that will struggle mightily but the point is about unifying the provincial associations in sport not thumping your chest! I think that both of the coaches for MT and Carr get that point which is why they continue to play up in AAAA knowing that they might not get an ofsaa chance and you never see them on this board complaining about it!

I'm not a big fan of all the whining about Toronto Catholic only having one spot but I do think that there is a legitimate point about St. Mike's. Why does the CISAA get a direct berth to AAAA OFSAA when there is only one AAAA boys school in the entire region? That's why they should have to play another region.

The three regions up north don't get a AAAA berth so the comment about Thunder Bay isn't based upon the facts.

The CISAA winner used to play off against the Georgian Bay winner but that region has added AAAA school over the past few years.

OFSAA is a showcase of regional champions and a few runners-up from the largest regions (TDSAA, ROPSSAA, and CWOSSAA) but it is not supposed to be a tournament of automatic qualifiers, as we see with St. Mike's. Regardless of how good St. Mike's is - and let's face it, they have not been competitive at AAAA OFSAA most years - no school should be allowed to attend OFSAA every year simply because there isn't anyone else.

Whether it be Toronto Catholic or another region, St. Mike's should have to play at least one meaningful OFSAA qualifier to participate. That could be Toronto Catholic because of the regions past history of hosting many CISAA schools before it joined OFSAA and also it's recent history of competitiveness at OFSAA. It could be one of the other growing GTA regions like York or Durham, ot it could even be the best region from the previous year's OFSAA that didn't receive a second berth.

Regardless of how it's broken down, the CISAA does not deserve a direct berth. Hopefully this issue will be addressed at the OFSAA AGM in June when each sport's rules are reviewed for changes.

When Toronto Catholic only gets ONE bid, MT and Carr should agree to go AAA and AAAA, if each team is a top team they should be competing in an OFSAA. Winning AAA will be no walk in the park either (There are going to be some tough teams there as well). Winning AAA should not be looked down upon, but celebrated! Each team is very fortunate they get to declare up, some associations in Canada and the US do not allow you to do that.

The system isn't always fair. My team is the AA champs of ROPSSAA (and would have likely been a top 6 seed at OFSSAA) but we always have to crossover with GHAC - this year that meant playing a powerful STA team (and no OFSAA for us).

I do a agree with Coach Clement on one point. Teams should be able to declare up based on how far they reach in their league playoffs. Ottawa does it this way. That means teams don't get penalized for declaring up (they don't declare until the end).

So if a AA school wins their league (like our girls' team did this year), they can choose to move up to AAA or AAAA or stay put. This would allow the Carr/MT winner to declare AAAA and the loser to go AAA. This system wouldn't work in Peel since we have two Tiers (and two league champions) unless you only count Tier 1. If I've confused everyone my apologies.

Coach M

This is a debate that is not limited to the TDCAA but to many regions in a variety of sports. Back in the day of the old Tri-City (Etobicoke, North York and York), Bathurst Heights and Runnymede played in every final except for a couple occasions when Martingrove would get in. Only one team went to OFSAA. And clearly in most years, Bathurst and Runnymede, like Mother Teresa and Father Henry Carr, were 2 of the top 5 teams in Ontario.

My first point would be, why is OFSAA not a Championship of the best teams in the province? What purpose does it serve to have 40-60 point blowouts that are commonplace in the 2nd round? Just imagine if the actual top 16 teams, regardless of region, would compete for the OFSAA Championship. No blowouts, every game a nailbiter...it would be awesome basketball.

My second point is directed at the notion of "whining" put forth by Peel Fan. Whining might be a bit harsh. I do not understand why it is whining when the fans want BOTH Mother Teresa and Father Henry Carr to battle the other top teams in the provinice. I don't know about MT, but FHC has defeated both Peel finalists who incidentally have qualified for OFSAA.

Thirdly, I agree with Peel Fan about CISAA. I am not sure if this is true, but if CISAA only has one 'AAAA' sized school, I cannot understand why they get automatic entry into 'AAAA' OFSAA. The TDCAA I believe has at least 5 'AAAA' sized schools (plus two of the perennial top teams in Ontario) and yet we only get one automatic entry.

Lastly, I agree with Coach Muia. Why not have the TDCAA Champion compete at 'AAAA' and the TDCAA finalist compete at 'AAA'? Coach Gallacher and I have discussed this, but we do not make the policies of the TDCAA.

Let me finish by saying that both Coach Gallacher and I were fully aware that the TDCAA would only have one entry this year. We made our decisions and we live by them. Netiher of us are whining and it will make for what I expect to be another tremendous TDCAA Championship!

Coach Melnik

simply put, it is unfair that a school that can get players from wherever they want gets an automatic spot at AAAA OFSAA when a team also in the GTA that has normal enrollment and more talent does not get the opportunity......there is no denying the fact that there is a flaw in the system. THE ONTARIO CHAMPIONSHIP SHOULD INCLUDE THE BEST TEAMS IN ONTARIO

This years OFSAA will not be the same if only one of these two talented teams make it.. St. Mikes will just get blown out when they play a top team and I agree 100% with everyone here that they shouldnt be allowed a straight buy in they should have to play the loser of this game.. Pickering got into OFSAA going for that three peat having teams like St. Mikes in their isnt going to make there chances of winning any harder or challenging. OFSAA is the tournament of the best teams in Ontario last I recall.. and im pretty sure Father Henry Carr and Mother Teresa are both capable of BLOWING out St. Mikes by atleast 50+ if they really wanted to... As Coach Melnik said there shouldnt be games in OFSAA were teams get blown out games should be nailbiters I agree with that statement 100% .. Hope the OFSAA people get there heads on straight and do something about this situation... otherwise Goodluck to who ever wins this game and goes to OFSAA...

I think the problem here is only made more annoying to most based on the fact that these schools actually spend time trying to get these kids to come to their schools. With this happening you can see why so many people are upset. These kids are promised to have a chance to be the best team in Ontario and don't get it because of this. What else happens is that "AAAA" OFSAA has been declared as the best one overall when really, there is nothing in the description of that Tournament that states that. It is really the Ontario Championships for schools 1251+.
These players in these schools see this as their last chance to play for a title in their last years and when they don't get a chance they voice their opinions here. It was stated above that other sports face the same problem. The best example is Boys Volleyball. I am just as big a fan of this as basketball and know that there are a few schools in Ontario that dominate just like in basketball. But the difference is that they face of in Tournaments throughout the year to decide this. OFSAA is more like the final tournament then a declaration to see who is best. The biggest tournament for boys volleyball is the York University Invitational just like the Junior Rimrocker is.
Every team in the top lists for basketball will play each other at least once throughout the year and should know that they have many chances to prove they are the best all the time. Ten years from now not a person is going to remember any of this but I am sure every player would like to have something back at the school to show that they were a great team, and I personally would much rather have a "AAA" OFSAA champion banner hung in my gym then have no way of proving to anyone that I was apart of the 4th best team in 2002 at "AAAA".

I remember not too long ago when St Mikes was part of the Toronto Catholic League, not the Independent Private school league. What is bothersome about this is teams who win league championships such as Eastern, Laurier, Martingrove etc still have to play a playoff system against other top schools to get to OFSAA. On the other hand, St Mike's knew it was going to OFSAA the day their first practice began no matter how well they did this season. How fair is that? That stands out to me more than the fact two top schools such as MT and Carr have to battle for a spot.Tell me this, would St Mikes still have an AAAA bid if they went winless in their league? Yes. Would they accept the bid? Only the coach and admin know.
I truly believe that it might be time to expand the OFSAA from the current format to 32 teams. That way you can still have the regions represented and add in Wild cards based on a playoff system. The wild cards would still have to play other good schools for certain amount of spots. If there is only one school that is in a certain classification (AAAA St Mikes), then that school cannot be given an automatic bid. They must play the loser of the Carr/MT game for one spot. This is just an example that I am giving.
There will be flaws in every system but it is the goal to put in the one that has the least. Keep in mind that good top 15 programs like Oakwood and Newtonbrook are not going to OFSAA simply because they lost to a very good West Hill team and a school like St Mikes goes in unchallanged. What would happen if there were no bids from the Independent league for AAAA? Who would be offered the spot? Let's be honest, school enrollment is down and let's just say St Mikes goes down to AAA, then there are no AAAA schools in the region.What would happen then? You cannot possibly continue to give automatic bids to regions with very few schools that meet the classification criteria.

Father Henry Carr and MT should both make ofsaa... end of story. Both are one of the top 2 schools in the city and deserve a spot.

32 teams will not work, money plays to big a role as travel and lodging costs a great amount. I pulled this from an article from the London, Ontario free press. Much like Toronto is with Basketball , London is with Volleyball.

"The Oaks head to Kingston for the OFSAA tournament starting a week today. The Warriors, who could easily have been seeded No. 2 at OFSAA, are done as WOSSAA has decided not to accept second entries at provincial championships if the tournament is more than three hours' drive away."

The Warriors refer to St. Micheals in London area who were one of the top ten teams in Ontario and not able to attend Ofsaa due to costs. If a 32 team was adopted for this "AAA", "AA", "A" would have to be eliminated and the tournament would have to be held in Toronto. 32 team format, NEVER will happen.