+15
canadianhoopsfan
TorontoRocket
sebastian31
Peel Fan
gnote
DG_10
caddykid5
calderoni_8
airCHINA
icewater
baller1o1
Mr Bean
rerun
Coach Clement
EYE OF A TIGER
19 posters
Next Years Top 10 Predictions!!!!!!!!!!!
EYE OF A TIGER- Freshman
- Number of posts : 161
Registration date : 2008-07-22
summer is goin fast and i'll like to caught peoples opinions....please make ur own list and don't forget to EXPLAIN WHY ON THE BOTTOM...thank you
Coach Clement- Hall Of Fame
- Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-07-09
This is the second last Toronto Star Top Ten from last season. Things have changed since then but it may serve as a reminder of where we were.
High school Top 10, boys basketball
Selections are made based on performance during the previous seven-day period. Rankings of teams for Week 11 are determined in consultation with high school, college and university coaches along with officials and fans.
1. Pickering (55-2)
Points: 229. Last week: No. 1
League: Durham Region
City: Ajax
Skinny: Did not play
2. Eastern Commerce (28-4)
Points: 211. Last week: No. 4
League: TDSSAA-South
City: Toronto
Skinny: Defeated West Hill 73-57 in Quad-A semifinal. Matthieu Johnson scored 16 points in 72-35 win over Earl Haig.
3. Father Henry Carr (42-4)
Points: 210. Last week: No. 2
League: TDCAA
City: Toronto
Skinny: Tramar Sutherland scored 28 points in a 101-48 quarter-final win over Don Bosco. Sutherland had 32 points in an 86-34 win over Michael Power/St. Joseph in preliminary round playoff.
4. Mother Teresa (29-7)
Points: 208. Last week: No. 3
League: TDCAA
City: Toronto
Skinny: Defeated Francis Libermann 87-56 in quarter-final. Ashton Khan scored 16 points in 77-33 preliminary round playoff win over Etienne Brule.
5. Father Michael Goetz (34-4)
Points: 204. Last week: No. 6
League: Peel Region
City: Mississauga
Skinny: David Tyndale scored 30 points in a 99-55 quarter-final win over Loyola. Andrew Nicholson scored 17 points in 92-54 preliminary round playoff win over Notre Dame.
6. Vaughan (31-7)
Points: 197. Last week: No. 7
League: York Region
City: Thornhill
Skinny: Joshua Collins scored 15 points in a 68-51 semifinal win and elimination of Markham.
7. St. Edmund Campion (26-6)
Points: 196. Last week: No. 8
League: Peel Region
City: Brampton
Skinny: Kareem Malcolm scored 21 points in a 72-51 quarter-final win over St. Marguerite d'Youville. Kareem Malcolm scored 24 points in 69-39 preliminary round playoff win over Gonzaga.
8. Pine Ridge (28-8.)
Points: 194. Last week: No. 8
League: Durham Region
City: Pickering
Skinny: Defeated Dunbarton by default.
9. Martingrove (25-9)
Points: 192. Last week: No. 9
League: TDSSAA-West
City: Toronto
Skinny: Matthew Wright scored 32 points in 83-82 Triple-A semifinal win over Emery. Wright also had 12 in an 81-55 thumping of Pearson in a citywide playoff game.
10. Oakwood (21-6)
Points: 191. Last week: No. 10
League: TDSSAA-South
City: Toronto
Skinny: Defeated Etobicoke 69-41 in Quad-A semifinal. Kenneth Buchanan and Bruno Silvestrin each scored 16 points in a 58-49 citywide playoff win over Newtonbrook.
10. West Hill (23-8.)
Points: 191. Last week: No. 5
League: TDSSAA-East
City: Toronto
Skinny: Lost 73-57 to Eastern Commerce in Quad-A semifinal.
Honourable mention: Central Commerce, Vaughan Road, Sacred Heart, Emery.
Dropped from previous week: Markham (7) and Ascension 9)
High school Top 10, boys basketball
Selections are made based on performance during the previous seven-day period. Rankings of teams for Week 11 are determined in consultation with high school, college and university coaches along with officials and fans.
1. Pickering (55-2)
Points: 229. Last week: No. 1
League: Durham Region
City: Ajax
Skinny: Did not play
2. Eastern Commerce (28-4)
Points: 211. Last week: No. 4
League: TDSSAA-South
City: Toronto
Skinny: Defeated West Hill 73-57 in Quad-A semifinal. Matthieu Johnson scored 16 points in 72-35 win over Earl Haig.
3. Father Henry Carr (42-4)
Points: 210. Last week: No. 2
League: TDCAA
City: Toronto
Skinny: Tramar Sutherland scored 28 points in a 101-48 quarter-final win over Don Bosco. Sutherland had 32 points in an 86-34 win over Michael Power/St. Joseph in preliminary round playoff.
4. Mother Teresa (29-7)
Points: 208. Last week: No. 3
League: TDCAA
City: Toronto
Skinny: Defeated Francis Libermann 87-56 in quarter-final. Ashton Khan scored 16 points in 77-33 preliminary round playoff win over Etienne Brule.
5. Father Michael Goetz (34-4)
Points: 204. Last week: No. 6
League: Peel Region
City: Mississauga
Skinny: David Tyndale scored 30 points in a 99-55 quarter-final win over Loyola. Andrew Nicholson scored 17 points in 92-54 preliminary round playoff win over Notre Dame.
6. Vaughan (31-7)
Points: 197. Last week: No. 7
League: York Region
City: Thornhill
Skinny: Joshua Collins scored 15 points in a 68-51 semifinal win and elimination of Markham.
7. St. Edmund Campion (26-6)
Points: 196. Last week: No. 8
League: Peel Region
City: Brampton
Skinny: Kareem Malcolm scored 21 points in a 72-51 quarter-final win over St. Marguerite d'Youville. Kareem Malcolm scored 24 points in 69-39 preliminary round playoff win over Gonzaga.
8. Pine Ridge (28-8.)
Points: 194. Last week: No. 8
League: Durham Region
City: Pickering
Skinny: Defeated Dunbarton by default.
9. Martingrove (25-9)
Points: 192. Last week: No. 9
League: TDSSAA-West
City: Toronto
Skinny: Matthew Wright scored 32 points in 83-82 Triple-A semifinal win over Emery. Wright also had 12 in an 81-55 thumping of Pearson in a citywide playoff game.
10. Oakwood (21-6)
Points: 191. Last week: No. 10
League: TDSSAA-South
City: Toronto
Skinny: Defeated Etobicoke 69-41 in Quad-A semifinal. Kenneth Buchanan and Bruno Silvestrin each scored 16 points in a 58-49 citywide playoff win over Newtonbrook.
10. West Hill (23-8.)
Points: 191. Last week: No. 5
League: TDSSAA-East
City: Toronto
Skinny: Lost 73-57 to Eastern Commerce in Quad-A semifinal.
Honourable mention: Central Commerce, Vaughan Road, Sacred Heart, Emery.
Dropped from previous week: Markham (7) and Ascension 9)
EYE OF A TIGER- Freshman
- Number of posts : 161
Registration date : 2008-07-22
This will be my list...CORRECT ME....make ur own list and STATE WHY
1. Eastern
2.Mother Teresa
3.West Hill
4.Oakwood
5.Pickering
5.Campion
6. Henry Carr
7.D'youville
8.North Albion
9. Martingrove
10.West Humber
HM: Northern, Newtonbrook
1. Eastern
2.Mother Teresa
3.West Hill
4.Oakwood
5.Pickering
5.Campion
6. Henry Carr
7.D'youville
8.North Albion
9. Martingrove
10.West Humber
HM: Northern, Newtonbrook
rerun- Senior
- Number of posts : 958
Registration date : 2008-07-25
My Preseason Top 15 in the GTA
1. Mother Teresa
2. Eastern Commerce
3. Oakwood
4. West Hill
5. Pickering
6. Martingrove
7. Borden
8. Henry Carr
9. West Humber
10. Pine Ridge
Honourable Mention: Campion, Newtonbrook, D'Youville, St. Theresa, Notre Dame (Ajax)
1. Mother Teresa
2. Eastern Commerce
3. Oakwood
4. West Hill
5. Pickering
6. Martingrove
7. Borden
8. Henry Carr
9. West Humber
10. Pine Ridge
Honourable Mention: Campion, Newtonbrook, D'Youville, St. Theresa, Notre Dame (Ajax)
Mr Bean- Freshman
- Number of posts : 131
Registration date : 2008-07-26
- Post n°5
top ten
Hard to rate some teams like Pickering who is losing everybody and Mother Teresa and Eastern because word on the street is that they are losing some big names too. Henry Carr is losing a lot too but they have the best junior team in Ontario moving up. I don't expect much from Oakwood, Martingrove, Campion, and West Hill. Borden???? Come on. My ratings are based on everybody coming back.
1. Mother Teresa- Big Mo and Ashton
2. Eastern- JP and Alwayne
3. Pickering- Cory and Jon
4. Henry Carr- no big names. just talent from top to bottom
5. d'youville
6. Martingrove
7. North Albion
8. Oakwood
9. West Hill
10. Father Goetz
1. Mother Teresa- Big Mo and Ashton
2. Eastern- JP and Alwayne
3. Pickering- Cory and Jon
4. Henry Carr- no big names. just talent from top to bottom
5. d'youville
6. Martingrove
7. North Albion
8. Oakwood
9. West Hill
10. Father Goetz
Last edited by Mr Bean on Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
baller1o1- Freshman
- Number of posts : 98
Registration date : 2008-07-19
D'youville isnt ranked that high I don't even think there the favourite to win tier 1 Peel Campion is the favourite to win peel
icewater- Freshman
- Number of posts : 82
Registration date : 2008-07-09
in ur opinion they may not be the favourite but they have key players coming back like cameron alvi..kemish edwards..akeem gardner...and jose garcia, if they play right they'll win peel easily
Coach Clement- Hall Of Fame
- Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-07-09
I would never post a top ten but I was very impressed by Oakwood at OFSSAA last year.
They are well-coached play team basketball and have two fine players in Jamie Asefa and Julian Clarke. Also they have Michael Ranger who is very strong. Is Kenneth Buchanan back too?
They will be up there with the best of them in my opinion.
They are well-coached play team basketball and have two fine players in Jamie Asefa and Julian Clarke. Also they have Michael Ranger who is very strong. Is Kenneth Buchanan back too?
They will be up there with the best of them in my opinion.
airCHINA- Freshman
- Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-07-09
i dont get why u think pickering will do so bad. devoe isnt their whole team. they still got lots of talent on that team. thats why they are the champs this year.
calderoni_8- Freshman
- Number of posts : 89
Registration date : 2008-07-17
[quote="airCHINA"]i dont get why u think pickering will do so bad. devoe isnt their whole team. they still got lots of talent on that team. thats why they are the champs this year.[/quote]
Pickering is definitely a solid team but, losing the scoring and leadership that comes with devoe is hard to replace, also the loss of corey joseph will also impact the team greatly, if they can adapt to this quickly i can see them being solid but on paper it seems they wont be near the championship level that they were at this year.
Pickering is definitely a solid team but, losing the scoring and leadership that comes with devoe is hard to replace, also the loss of corey joseph will also impact the team greatly, if they can adapt to this quickly i can see them being solid but on paper it seems they wont be near the championship level that they were at this year.
baller1o1- Freshman
- Number of posts : 98
Registration date : 2008-07-19
[quote="icewater"]in ur opinion they may not be the favourite but they have key players coming back like cameron alvi..kemish edwards..akeem gardner...and jose garcia, if they play right they'll win peel easily[/quote]
Okay they might win peel easily but Campion probably has key players coming back as well they probably are top 10 but not top 5
Okay they might win peel easily but Campion probably has key players coming back as well they probably are top 10 but not top 5
Coach Clement- Hall Of Fame
- Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-07-09
The problem for Pickering is that not only are they being hit very hard by graduation: Devoe, Dwayne, Justin, Juevol and possibly Jonathon Tull but also they are losing their two outstanding underclassmen in Cory Joseph and Jermaine Myers.
That is a devastating hit not only to next season but also to their future.
They have an excellent group of coaches in their program but they will have their work cut out for sure!
That is a devastating hit not only to next season but also to their future.
They have an excellent group of coaches in their program but they will have their work cut out for sure!
caddykid5- Sophomore
- Number of posts : 505
Registration date : 2008-07-21
are cory and jermaine going to Prep (Pickering)?
Coach Clement- Hall Of Fame
- Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-07-09
Cory is looking at Findlay Prep in Las Vegas and Jermaine is going to an undisclosed school in Indiana.
DG_10- Freshman
- Number of posts : 1
Registration date : 2008-07-30
1. Mother Teresa
2. Eastern Commerce
3. West Hilll
4. Pickering
5. Oakwood
6. Henry Carr
7. Pine Ridge
8. Martingrove
9. West Humber
10. Borden
I think that this years sleeper teams are Borden and West Humber. Borden has a few members from its outstanding junior team coming up(Kevon & Joseph), beat Vaughn Road in the city championshios, and remember they came 4th this year in OFSAA. West Humber should also be solid this year.
2. Eastern Commerce
3. West Hilll
4. Pickering
5. Oakwood
6. Henry Carr
7. Pine Ridge
8. Martingrove
9. West Humber
10. Borden
I think that this years sleeper teams are Borden and West Humber. Borden has a few members from its outstanding junior team coming up(Kevon & Joseph), beat Vaughn Road in the city championshios, and remember they came 4th this year in OFSAA. West Humber should also be solid this year.
Mr Bean- Freshman
- Number of posts : 131
Registration date : 2008-07-26
Too much respect for Pickering. This will not be the same kinda team. Maybe West Hill is that good but is the coach changing? Oakwood should be good but have not proven a thing for so long. I heard that Carr is working out already is that true? What is the word on the defenctions from Mother Teresa and Eastern?
gnote- Freshman
- Number of posts : 58
Registration date : 2008-07-31
How can anyone make a list without pickering in the TOP 10? Mr Bean you say your list assumes everyone coming back, then you must assume cory and tull are coming back which makes pickering a top 5 team easily, but yet you have them not ranked? But eastern is top 2 and you list JP returning (when he really isnt)?
My top teams:
1. mt (if Mo and ashton return)
2. oakwood (very impressive in 1/4s last year vs pick)
3. eastern (they will reload, transfers)
4. carr (best jr team and probably transfers)
5. pickering (2nd best jr team, tull returning? transfers now that there is playing time to be had?)
after this, not sure, but some teams will surprise
My top teams:
1. mt (if Mo and ashton return)
2. oakwood (very impressive in 1/4s last year vs pick)
3. eastern (they will reload, transfers)
4. carr (best jr team and probably transfers)
5. pickering (2nd best jr team, tull returning? transfers now that there is playing time to be had?)
after this, not sure, but some teams will surprise
Mr Bean- Freshman
- Number of posts : 131
Registration date : 2008-07-26
You are right gnote! I made a mistake and forgot to include Pickering. If everyone is back they are top three. Do you think Oakwood is going to be that high?
Peel Fan- Sophomore
- Number of posts : 580
Registration date : 2008-07-31
From a Peel perspective, I think that Campion and d'Youville look like the best teams on paper at this point. The X factor is how many players they lose to US high schools. The two teams have been decimated by the high number of players (usually Bounce/CIA) that go south.
Goetz might finally take step backwards this year though they will still will be amongst the best in Peel. They graduate their key players and the junior teams feeding this year's grade 12s and 5th years was a little weaker than usual.
Loyola will be better than last year though they will be young with a lot of grade 11s getting significant playing time.
Xavier will be very strong on paper as they had a lot of excellent grade 11s last year. The question is how many 5th year players return.
Augustine will be the dark horse in Brampton. After a couple of solid years in junior, everyone will be curious to see if they make the transition to senior and if they become part of the Brampton pipeline to the US.
Ascension is the big unknown. Every year, people predict that this will be the year they finally take a step back and rebuild yet they are in the hunt every year. OTOH, they had a LOT of 5th year players last year and the junior program may not be able to fill so many starting spots all at once.
There are the programs on the rise that have not yet established (or re-established, in the case of Leger) their reputations at the senior level (e.g. Cardinal Leger, Marcellinus, Mississauga, Joan of Arc) and everyone will be interested in seeing if any of them step up.
Humberview will also garner a lot of attention. Will the school from Bolton shock Peel once again this year or was it a one year flash in the pan?
Notre Dame's junior teams have surpised a lot of teams come playoff time over the past two seasons but it's been a while since they were a senior contender. We'll see if they can avoid the drop that often hits players when they enter senior ball where it's a whole different world from junior.
A few schools have dominated senior the past few years: Goetz, Ascension, d'Youville, Loyola, and Campion. Picking two of those teams to represent the region at AAAA OFSAA is always a good bet. If I had to pick a team from outside this group to upset the balance, my choice would be Xavier. Well coached, very athletic, and a lot of experience this year. However, I still think there's better odds of one of the 5 big teams taking the spot.
Goetz might finally take step backwards this year though they will still will be amongst the best in Peel. They graduate their key players and the junior teams feeding this year's grade 12s and 5th years was a little weaker than usual.
Loyola will be better than last year though they will be young with a lot of grade 11s getting significant playing time.
Xavier will be very strong on paper as they had a lot of excellent grade 11s last year. The question is how many 5th year players return.
Augustine will be the dark horse in Brampton. After a couple of solid years in junior, everyone will be curious to see if they make the transition to senior and if they become part of the Brampton pipeline to the US.
Ascension is the big unknown. Every year, people predict that this will be the year they finally take a step back and rebuild yet they are in the hunt every year. OTOH, they had a LOT of 5th year players last year and the junior program may not be able to fill so many starting spots all at once.
There are the programs on the rise that have not yet established (or re-established, in the case of Leger) their reputations at the senior level (e.g. Cardinal Leger, Marcellinus, Mississauga, Joan of Arc) and everyone will be interested in seeing if any of them step up.
Humberview will also garner a lot of attention. Will the school from Bolton shock Peel once again this year or was it a one year flash in the pan?
Notre Dame's junior teams have surpised a lot of teams come playoff time over the past two seasons but it's been a while since they were a senior contender. We'll see if they can avoid the drop that often hits players when they enter senior ball where it's a whole different world from junior.
A few schools have dominated senior the past few years: Goetz, Ascension, d'Youville, Loyola, and Campion. Picking two of those teams to represent the region at AAAA OFSAA is always a good bet. If I had to pick a team from outside this group to upset the balance, my choice would be Xavier. Well coached, very athletic, and a lot of experience this year. However, I still think there's better odds of one of the 5 big teams taking the spot.
sebastian31- Freshman
- Number of posts : 13
Registration date : 2008-08-01
[b]Top 5[/b]
[b]1)Mother Teresa[/b]
g-Ashton Khan
G-Akeem Isaac
F-Onnex Blackwood
F-Ancil Martin
C-Mourice
Bench: Ryan Augustine, Jermaine Lightbody, Dwayne
[b]2)Eastern[/b]
G-Marvin Binney
G-Brandon Sam-Hinton
F-Alwayne Bigby
F-Jerome
C-??
[b]3)Pickering[/b]
G-Jameel Williamson
G-Jonathan Tull
F-Liban Hassan
F-Troy Joseph(Transfer)
C-Kevin Thomas
Bench: Mamadou Mutombo(Transfer), Rowan Bennet(Transfer), Delroy
[b]4)West Hill[/b]
G-Adrian Tomlinson (if he stays)
G-Taylor Johnston (if he stays)
F-Alex Arthur
F-Shae Shepperd
C- 6'8 Somalian Kid
Bench:Eldrige, Ryan Barton
[b]5)Oakwood[/b]
G-Julian Clarke
G-??
F-Jamie Asefa
F-Michael Ranger
C-??
[b]1)Mother Teresa[/b]
g-Ashton Khan
G-Akeem Isaac
F-Onnex Blackwood
F-Ancil Martin
C-Mourice
Bench: Ryan Augustine, Jermaine Lightbody, Dwayne
[b]2)Eastern[/b]
G-Marvin Binney
G-Brandon Sam-Hinton
F-Alwayne Bigby
F-Jerome
C-??
[b]3)Pickering[/b]
G-Jameel Williamson
G-Jonathan Tull
F-Liban Hassan
F-Troy Joseph(Transfer)
C-Kevin Thomas
Bench: Mamadou Mutombo(Transfer), Rowan Bennet(Transfer), Delroy
[b]4)West Hill[/b]
G-Adrian Tomlinson (if he stays)
G-Taylor Johnston (if he stays)
F-Alex Arthur
F-Shae Shepperd
C- 6'8 Somalian Kid
Bench:Eldrige, Ryan Barton
[b]5)Oakwood[/b]
G-Julian Clarke
G-??
F-Jamie Asefa
F-Michael Ranger
C-??
rerun- Senior
- Number of posts : 958
Registration date : 2008-07-25
If D'youville is returning all their players such as Akeem, Kemeish and Cameron Alvi, then they will be a top five team.
Coach Clement- Hall Of Fame
- Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-07-09
[quote="sebastian31"][b]Top 5[/b]
[b]1)Mother Teresa[/b]
g-Ashton Khan
G-Akeem Isaac
F-Onnex Blackwood
F-Ancil Martin
C-Mourice
Bench: Ryan Augustine, Jermaine Lightbody, Dwayne
[b]2)Eastern[/b]
G-Marvin Binney
G-Brandon Sam-Hinton
F-Alwayne Bigby
F-Jerome
C-??
[b]3)Pickering[/b]
G-Jameel Williamson
G-Jonathan Tull
F-Liban Hassan
F-Troy Joseph(Transfer)
C-Kevin Thomas
Bench: Mamadou Mutombo(Transfer), Rowan Bennet(Transfer), Delroy
[b]4)West Hill[/b]
G-Adrian Tomlinson (if he stays)
G-Taylor Johnston (if he stays)
F-Alex Arthur
F-Shae Shepperd
C- 6'8 Somalian Kid
Bench:Eldrige, Ryan Barton
[b]5)Oakwood[/b]
G-Julian Clarke
G-??
F-Jamie Asefa
F-Michael Ranger
C-??[/quote]
I do not believe Akeem is back for MT. Ritchie Kanza, Mookie Knott and Matthew Augustine will contribute. Dwayne is Dwayne Dawes.
I think Mookie could have a good season this year. He was an outstanding Junior.
[b]1)Mother Teresa[/b]
g-Ashton Khan
G-Akeem Isaac
F-Onnex Blackwood
F-Ancil Martin
C-Mourice
Bench: Ryan Augustine, Jermaine Lightbody, Dwayne
[b]2)Eastern[/b]
G-Marvin Binney
G-Brandon Sam-Hinton
F-Alwayne Bigby
F-Jerome
C-??
[b]3)Pickering[/b]
G-Jameel Williamson
G-Jonathan Tull
F-Liban Hassan
F-Troy Joseph(Transfer)
C-Kevin Thomas
Bench: Mamadou Mutombo(Transfer), Rowan Bennet(Transfer), Delroy
[b]4)West Hill[/b]
G-Adrian Tomlinson (if he stays)
G-Taylor Johnston (if he stays)
F-Alex Arthur
F-Shae Shepperd
C- 6'8 Somalian Kid
Bench:Eldrige, Ryan Barton
[b]5)Oakwood[/b]
G-Julian Clarke
G-??
F-Jamie Asefa
F-Michael Ranger
C-??[/quote]
I do not believe Akeem is back for MT. Ritchie Kanza, Mookie Knott and Matthew Augustine will contribute. Dwayne is Dwayne Dawes.
I think Mookie could have a good season this year. He was an outstanding Junior.
gnote- Freshman
- Number of posts : 58
Registration date : 2008-07-31
An honest mistake mrbean. I do think oakwood will be that high if they return everyone. They really impressed at ofsaa last year. I also forgot to include westhill as i think they will fight for a top 5 ranking.
TorontoRocket- Freshman
- Number of posts : 2
Registration date : 2008-08-18
coach bob your overlookin teams such as pjp,who are bringin up some solid jrs,and a j clarke team,whos also bringing up solid jrs who not only beat pick last yr,but also gave your mt squad 2 very close games
Coach Clement- Hall Of Fame
- Number of posts : 5295
Registration date : 2008-07-09
[quote="TorontoRocket"]coach bob your overlookin teams such as pjp,who are bringin up some solid jrs,and a j clarke team,whos also bringing up solid jrs who not only beat pick last yr,but also gave your mt squad 2 very close games[/quote]
I'm not overlooking anyone.
I do not list teams and I haven't on this thread. I simply quoted someone else on a response in which I was trying to clarify who was returning for MT.
I'm not overlooking anyone.
I do not list teams and I haven't on this thread. I simply quoted someone else on a response in which I was trying to clarify who was returning for MT.
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