ROPSSAA Playoffs: Early preview and problem?

After reading the original post, I have asked around and it seems that it will be the same system as last year: The 8 division winners will be 1-8 and the 8 second place teams will be 9-16. An e-mail will be sent to all the coaches at the conclusion of the regular season and they will be asked to rank each of the teams for both tier 1 and tier 2 playoffs, based on the criteria above.

Ascension defeat Aquinas today, 56-48 so let the convoluted ranking begin! Also, marcellinus beat Turner but second place in North central is still not decided. However, only two teams still have a shot instead of three.

NORTH 1: d'Youville
NORTH 2: Mayfield
NORTH WEST 1: Campion
NORTH EAST 2: Fletcher's
NORTH EAST 1: Ascension
NORTH EAST 2: Aquinas
NORTH CENTRAL 1: Leger
NORTH CENTRAL 2: Augustine or Famille (Famille has tie-breaking advantage if they win their last game)
CENTRAL 1: Carmel
CENTRAL 2: Joe's
SOUTH 1: Goetz
SOUTH 2: Lorne Park
SOUTH WEST 1: Gonzaga
SOUTH WEST 2: Joan of Arc
SOUTH EAST 1: Applewood
SOUTH EAST 2: Cawthra

There is one remaining game that will settle the final playoff spots:

__Oct 29__
Famille @ Jeunes

Obviously, I am very happy that our girls' (Ascension) went into STA today and pulled out a great win. A trip to the ROPSSAA final is definitely in the cards barring a major upset.

But in terms of the overall Peel picture it is very disappointing that one of our best two teams (D'youville or Aquinas) will not be one of our two reps at AAAA OFSAA this year. A flawed seeding system should NOT be the reason a deserving team should miss OFSAA. Unless something "weird" happens with the seedings, a team less deserving than Aquinas will be at AAAA OFSAA this year.

Obviously we are very disappointed that the seeding system will determine the fate of a fantastic Aquinas basketball team. I appreciate all the support Aquinas is recieving from everyone at this forum. It truly means that you do recoginize that we are a very good team that should be representing Peel at AAAA OFSAA.

With that said we had our chance to win a game that we needed to win. If you saw the game you were thoroughly entertained by two great basketball teams that just happen to be in the same division. Christine went off!! and my girls did not finish when we needed to. But do not count us out. We will work hard because our goal is to go to OFSAA. Our road is just harder now. We will get better because of this.

Now if we can get coaches to rank us lower than ninth we may have something there. Next year we need to try and change the system to ranking teams 1 - 16.

...I am very sure Aquinas will not be ranked lower than 9th...like I mentioned before I agree with changing the system but Aquinas needed to beat Ascension at home to have the best opportunity to get to the finals and they did not do that...being the third best team in Peel is the same as being the sixteenth best...neither go to OFSAA. There is no doubt Aquinas can compete with anyone who goes to AAAA OFSAA but they are a victim of being in a tough league (as was Golden State with 50 wins in the West last year, as was Louisville who was a 3 seed in a tough bracket in the NCAA Tournament, as is ROPSSAA who has to play off vs GHAC to get to OFSAA for A, AA, and AAA)....

"Now if we can get coaches to rank us lower than ninth we may have something there. Next year we need to try and change the system to ranking teams 1 - 16."

I do agree that next year this has to be changed TDSAA and TDCAA dont have this problem.But to be ranked less than 9th when 9th is what you deserve that seems unfair to other teams. Im pretty sure that Aquinas will work hard and fight to the end. Just sad the top 2 AAAA teams in Peel have to play it out so early

..in the future, I suggest that there are separate AAAA playoffs just as there are separate AAA, AA, and A playoffs...

to add to what was said..it would be very unfair to the higher seeds to rank Aquinas lower than 9th...that would bring into question the integrity of the rankings...we all sympathize with Aquinas but they definitely had opportunities to beat a team they have beaten already this year to secure the 2 spot and just did not do it...I repeat that A, AA, AAA schools should not be eligible to eliminate AAAA schools from opportunities to participate at OFSAA..methinx our post season meeting wil be interesting...

The coaches should give Aquinas the 10th seed. Therefore allowing Aquinas to avoid a possible quarter-final game against power house d'Youville.

so if that happens who would they play. And doesnt that mess around with the other seedings and how it plays out? or do they still play d'youville but at a later time?

Thank you coach blue that is what i was getting to. like i said this needs to be changed.mistakes this year.corrections next year

Everything you have said Coach Blue is very typical of someone who is "in charge" and is trying to put "a spin" on a bad situation.

"...being the third best team in Peel is the same as being the sixteenth best", as you have stated, is not so true if the other team in the top 3 is not going to be part of the equation ... that would make them top two!

Your comment about Aquinas not winning when they had to is totally patronizing.

No matter how you spin it, A DESERVING AAAA REPRESENTATIVE will likely be replaced by a lesser team because of the horrible seeding system. I would much rather you come on this discussion board and admit as much rather than tell Aquinas that they could have won their game.

Ascension may very well be one of the top 5 teams in the province this year. Aquinas just got stuck with being geographically near them - that made them a two seed even though they are definitely NOT compared to the rest of the league.

Question.

Assuming Ascension and D'Youville meet in the final who will get the second OFSSAA birth? I assume it's one of the losers of the semi finals but as far as I know there's no third place game. So how do they decide who is the third ranked team and thus gets the second OFSSAA birth since Ascension is AA?

I am not in charge...I have the same amount of say as any other coach has in regards to seeding.

Perhaps you have not read all of my posts..I have clearly stated that I am not in favour of the current seeding system and I believe Aquinas is deserving of the other AAAA berth, but they are not entitled to it. I agree that the seeding process should be changed but to change in the middle of a season to suit a specific set of circumstances is not fair. For some reason it seems we have already assumed that Campion, Goetz and others will simply lay down and allow Aquinas or Ascension to proceed to the AAAA final because they have beaten them in the past. That, it seems is patronizing to assume that these other teams have no chance to beat Aquinas or Ascension.

That is the nature of sports. There will be times when some divisions are tougher than others and someone will feel as if their situation deserves special merit or attention. Hell, I have said enough times that I do not think it is fair that the ROPSSAA AAA rep has to play the GHAC AAA rep to go to OFSAA, but I do no think OFSAA will change it for me just because I feel one deserving team will be left at home. If we are fortunate enough to advance to the final, we will most likely play Nelson or Loyola or St. Mary's and we would both be deserving to go to OFSAA but the current set of circumstances do not allow us to do so...so we need to beat that team...just as Ascension will have to beat Milton and the Alexander sisters..just as Aquinas had to beat Ascension to secure the second seed...no intention of being patronizing...that's the truth...

Trust me, I wanted to get this changed but it is not fair to play by one set of rules and then in the middle of the process change the rules. As much as changing the rules may satisfy one school, another school could just as easily be upset and they would be justified in being upset.

I agree that Ascension and Aquinas have proven to be two of the best teams in our league, but for a league that prides itself on being deep, we are being awfully hasty to discount Campion and Goetz and Carmel in the playoffs...

...and if Aquinas gets the 10th seed, that would set up a possible Ascension-Aquinas matchup again...which is the same matchup they had today...the best situation for them would be the 11th seed (they would face the 3 seed in the quartefinals and still have to beat the 2 seed--ASCENSION--in the semifinals to get to the finals)..like I said before getting to the semis and losing is the same as losing in the first round--neither will get you to OFSAA.

..again, this disrupts the integrity of seeding...if let's say Campion got the 3rd seed, they would totally justified to complain..in either case, it would still come down to Aquinas beating Ascension to get to the finals...if of course that happened today THEY WOULD HAVE THE 2 SEED!!!!!! That was my original point...

Again I will state that I really like Aquinas' team..we played a great final in our tourney and they are a quality well-coached team..I was one of the first people to mention them on this board. They are a top 10 team and would certainly be a threat at OFSAA...I understand them wanting a better position to get to the final..just as I would like a better opportunity to get to OFSAA...WHO DOESN'T???

Coach Blue, you wrote, "being the third best team in Peel is the same as being the sixteenth best" and you also wrote, "in either case, it would still come down to Aquinas beating Ascension to get to the finals".

Both of these statements give the impression that the top two automatically go to AAAA OFSAA but that misses the whole point of the issue I raised in the very first post: If Ascension is one of those two finalists then the third place team will go to AAAA OFSAA.

So "being the third best team in Peel" is not "the same as being the sixteenth best." If Aquinas was #3 and lost to Ascension they would still have a shot at AAAA OFSAA if they beat the other semi-finalist.

At the end of the day, Peel should be sending the two best AAAA-declared schools that have proven it on the court; not the best team and then a second team that may or may not be second best but the answer to which we'll never know because a top contender was left behind a round early do to a faulty seeding system.

No one is blaming you for this. The coaches voted on the rules and no one considered the consequences of automatically seeding the division winners 1-8. It's not anybody's "fault". However, I don't thin there's any way to rationalize that it's fair.

Coach B,

Nobody is discounting those teams (including your own squad who deserve to be mentioned with those others). But you know that this is NOT what the issue is. The issue is, that, UP TO THIS POINT, those teams you mentioned don't deserve to be ranked higher that STA.

The seeding system would be much less of an issue if there was only one AAAA spot. Any team would eventually have to beat all the others to get that spot. But with two spots ... that changes everything.

Let me put it another way - let's take Campion for example ... they could get to AAAA OFSAAA without having to beat D'youville, Ascension or Aquinas in the playoffs. That is not taking anything away form them, but you see my point.

While I understand that you have stated that you are not in favour of the current system, you seem to be the only one who still defends it indirectly.

I understand it would be difficult to change the seeding system - however, as you know, suggestions were put forward that would have been equitable.

Nevertheless, let's enjoy the games. Good luck in the playoffs and getting to OFSAA. What would really be ironic is if both Peel finalists were actually AA and AAA bound and neither got by GHAC and got to go to OFSSA!!! (I doubt that will happen but could you imagine!)

It's obvious everyone is in agreement that the current seeding system is flawed, but it is what it is. You can't change the rules midway through the game. Aquinas should be the 9th seed. While the situation may seem unfair, it should stand as it is this year, and help to change the system next season.

Just to complete the playoff picture: Ste. Famiiles won their last game and, with the three way tie, they win on the tie-breaker. The current standings have them listed as fourth but that's simply alphabetical order. It will be adjusted once the convener fixes it tomorrow.

The 8 first place seeds are:
d'Youville
Campion
Ascension
Leger
Carmel
Goetz
Gonzaga
Applewood

The 8 second place seeds are:
Mayfield
Fletcher's
Aquinas
Famille
Joe's
Lorne Park
Joan of Arc
Cawthra

The first three seeds are easy: 1) d'Youville 2) Ascension 3) campion and the last first place seed is easy 8) Gonzaga. 4-7 are hard with Leger, Carmel Goetz and Applewood all undefeated. However, Goetz, Carmel and Applewood were out there playing decent GTA teams in tournament on a regular basis so I think that should push Leger down to #7. Carmel and Goetz have been on the Star and Hooptown HM a few times so I'll give them the slight edge at 4 & 5, with Goetz over Carmel purely on history. Applewood clocks in at #6.

The top second place team is easy: Aquinas at #9. I also think that Joan of Arc was in the weakest divison by far so they should be at #16. Lorne Park and Joes have the best pedegree of remaining teams with Lorne Park having more of a recent history off success in Peel playoffs and a couple of close games against Goetz. That means Lorne Park #10 and Joes #11. 12-15 aren't going to matter too much since none of the teams has any chance of an upset. Mayfield and Cawthra only lost to the first place teams in their divisions so they should be 12 and 13 (or 13 and 12, it doesn't matter). Fletcher's over Ste. Famille at #14 based purely on the fact that most coaches won't have a clue who the latter team is.

Based on my predictions, the first round match-ups would be:

1. d'Youville vs 16. Joan of Arc
2. Ascension vs. 15. Ste Famille
3. Campion vs. 14 Fletcher's
4. Goetz vs. 13 Cawthra
5. Carmel vs. 12 Mayfield
6. Applewood vs. 11 St. Joes
7. Leger vs. 10 Lorne Park
8. Gonzaga vs. 9 Aquinas

good point peel fan...so who wants to tell campion they are being bumped to 4th because the masses want aquinas to be 3rd? I would like to see someone rationalize that to Campion...

By the way, I don't really take any of this personally...comes with the territory...we all want what's best for basketball in our area, so I have no problem with anyone making suggestions...the suggestions you mention were put forward (equitable to who? to Peel? to Aquinas? to Campion? to Goetz?) should have been put forward at the postseason meeting last year or the preseason meeting this year..I was at both and did not hear anyone raise these concerns then...but to have all this come up one week-two weeks before the playoffs and decide to change the format one week before playoffs sets quite the precedent...I am not defending the seeding format, I am against changing any format this far into the season (regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the context of the format). Again, I am not in charge, I am not the one who decides if the playoff format changes...I am merely listening, just as you are, and stating my opinion.

Would you say that it would be inequitable if my team or Ascension (both ineligible for AAAA) got all the way to the Tier 1 finals and did not go to OFSAA? (BTW I do not feel this is as improbable as you may think--Ascension has beaten Aquinas twice and we lost by 4 to Aquinas and play Ascension on Friday) Would Peel then not be sending two of its best teams to OFSAA? Would we change the format then?

The standings are listed alphabetically in the case of ties...they will be corrected when the playoff matchups are sent out to the coaches.

Peel Fan: Your rankings are fairly accurate, though methinks you are underestimating Mayfield and Cawthra...we only beat Cawthra by 1 in our second game (they have two very good players) and Mayfield was second to the best team in the league...tough to say how good they will be...

The seeding forms were e-mailed to coaches today and the seeds should be known some time tomorrow.

ROPSSAA qualifiers for the other levels:

A
Nov 12: Brampton Christian vs GHAC champion

AA
Ste. Famiile 29-23 Mentor

Nov 6: Ste.Famille at Ascension

Nov 12: GHAC champion at ROPSSAA AA rep

AAA
Iona 37-24 St. Martin

Applewood 52-41 Iona
St. Joan of Arc 45-43 St. Marcellinus

Nov 6: St. Joan of Arc at Applewood

Nov 12: GHAC champion at ROPSSAA AAA rep

Iona 37 St. Martin 24
Applewood 52 Iona 41

tough second half..one of our players went into anaphylactic shock during the 3rd quarter in the changeroom and the ambulance had to attend..our girls were not focused and Iona took it to us...should be a good game next week with St Joan of Arc

O wow, hopeuflly your player is ok