This just in - US Prep School doesn't mean D1 Scholarships

Lastly, why I hold Vaughan S.S. in such high regard is reading posts like this from Coach Alkins. Not many people celebrate their teams this way . . . and this is their championship teams from the past year. . . You don't need prep school - you need a village to raise a child.

Re: York region Playoff Results
by coachalkins on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:09 pm

basketball_atr...actually it is our 3rd straight to complement our senior program's 4th straight. We were a finalist 4 years ago, but lost a tough one to a gritty and athletic Brother Andre team by 1 point.
But besides the 7 championships in 4 years, what our program is most proud of this season is the Senior Team Academic Average of 75% and the Junior Team Academic Average of 76% at the end of our 1st semester.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Vaughan Staff, Parents, and the collective Vaughan Community for all their support. A special thanks to Coach Paul, Coach Sims, Coach Saleh and of course Coach G for all their time and effort these past 6 months in developing and nurturing our student athletes.
Coach Alkins

One last thought . . .

Just to celebrate a player who students should admire:

Ryan Wright. (Played all years at Loyola in Peel)
Full Ride UCLA and Oklahoma

Degree in Human Development
Grad Student In Human Relations

2009-10 - Big 12 Second Team All Academic
2008- 09 - Big 12 Second Team All Academic
2006-08 - Pac 10 Second Team All Academic

Played Pro Ball in China.

Within the TDSB Black students have a 40+% dropout rate. It is as much to do about Black kids as it is about anything else. Although only 30 kids may be on the team another 100 think they should be. Black students who see a disproportionate number of successful Black males in music videos and on the fields and courts will aspire to that. President Obama and Oprah not withstanding.

When and if many of our Black students realize that it's easier to be a doctor or lawyer than a pro baller things may change. Realize this as well, they're fighting a media which is enamored with the flash and sexiness of Pro and NCAA ball. It's a billion dollar industry. That's hard, but we are digressing I feel.

I applaud Vaughan and other schools for their academic mindset and student support. There should be more of that. But, I know that even Vaughan lost kids, and if timing the timing wasn't off would've lost more.

I like to give credit where credit is due. Thanks ACIE EARL! This is definitely the hottest, most relevant topic in GTA basketball since the beginning of this website, in my humble opinion. Again, thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. I think we should create another posting summing up the most important information discussed here so far to make it easier for some of the high school kids reading this.

Acie Earl,

I agree that it takes a village to raise a child. I also agree that the importance and value of education has to stressed to student-athletes whether they are a small town hockey player or GTA Basketball. However, since this is a GTA high school basketball website, we can focus more on visible minorities in this particular discussion.

It is simple! The basketball village or community as a whole doesn't value education. If a village consists of coaches, parents, teachers, former players in prominent basketball positions and current high school players, then that message is clearly lost. It is not important! We are blinded by the success of the elite players and not looking at the whole spectrum. Since, I am a teacher and high school coach I can only speak from my own personal experience. The school system can not fix all of this! I don't think the school system can fix most of this. If the value of education is not consistent through all the segments of the basketball community, then we can get these negative outcomes....OBA Basketball, AAU basketball, parents, extended family, volunteers, and teachers are all part of this greater basketball community.

I've mentored many kids over the past ten years. I run a SAT Prep company and have helped many kids obtain scholarships. I talk to kids all the time about their choices and possible outcomes, but, many don't like my message. As a teacher, mentor, SAT instructor or high school coach I find that many student-athletes do things that are beyond the control of the school system.

For example, I tell a student to write his SAT Exam over again because his score is rather low and he tells me"it is cool...it is alright...my OBA/AAU coach said it is gonna be just fine because my grades are okay". That has nothing to do with the school system. That individual makes a bad decision based upon the basketball expert...the outside coach. What I wanted as a teacher and the message he is getting elsewhere are not consistent. It ended up hurting that student when he his full ride to Syracuse University passed him by.

A student is taking applied courses and is headed to Community college and Junior college. Then, his friends or rep coaches tell him that this is a waste of two years so he decides to enrol in prep school so he can reclassify and get around the rules of the NCAA Clearinghouse. I'm a teacher who is trying to steer these kids in the right direction....Yes you can still qualify for a D1 or D2 Scholarship in the States, but, you have to go to JUCO for two years. You have to take transferrable courses, maintain a 70% average and perform well athletically to make it happen. That's my message! However, they don't like my message! Some community coach has an easier option that can get them there quickly without so called "wasting two years". What does that got to do with the school system? This is happening all the time! My point is that if takes a village to raise a strong, well rounded kid then everyone in that village needs to be sending the same message. We are clearly not doing that.

If a kid wants to go to community college and play locally, then we need to encourage, support and recognize that as well. Let them know that it is possible to transfer to a CIS school and play university basketball if they so choose.

If parents are not involved in their children's lives and teaching them the value of education and if community coaches are not valuing the Canadian education system and looking for loopholes around the NCAA CLearinghouse, what can the school system do. In the end, the message is not consistent across the board. That is the main problem!

P.S. This is no way an indictment on all community coaches and parents...LOL

Acie Earl 55 lives,

I'm actually starting to take a liking to you. Lol! Again my comments are not intended to offend anyone rather to help bring clarification to the situation you mentioned earlier in your first post. You must admit that every situation is different and must be dealt with as such. I'm clearly aware of the effect our education system has on all visible minorities whether they play sports or not. However, I was just focusing on athletes because this is a sports form and it was relevant for this topic.

As for the race card.... This is not the joker card this is an actual card that impacts many lives and if we for one moment feel like this is not an issue... than we will simply just have to agree to disagree. You should probably someday speak to chris spence and get his take on race and sport.

Any way, you're on point when you speak about too many years kids, from the gta in particular have all been chasing a dream, in which I'm not opposed to. However, while chasing this dream you have to make sure that your priorites are in order:
1) God (if you have religious beliefs)
2)family
3)education
4) whatever your heart desires

As long as parents, kids, and coaches keep this focus, than we should have more kids succeeding not only on the court but off the court. Just my opinion!

In regards, to the stats of kids getting degrees and/or playing pro that head south, I'm sure the numbers are just as low and staggering as the ones that go to college and university here. So I don't think it's a heading south problem, IT'S JUST A PROBLEM!!



As for Karl English and the boys, not sure if we will ever qualify but I thing we stand a great chance if all our best taken actually plays.

Also not sure if I agree that Ryan wright is a great example, the only reason I say that is he left UCLA to attend Oklahoma? Was that an academic move or a chasing a dream move? Just a thought!

Ryan Wright

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=ncb&id=2842238
http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2009/11/wright-on-target/

Ryan underachieved and Coach wanted another scholarship available . . . I'm sure there's more to it . . . But, while off he still finished his degree and went onto grad work.

Let Olu Ashaolu be another example - doing grad students after earning a Business Degree at LA Tech. Personally, when I heard Sim was going to school this year I thought it was he had earned enough credits and like Olu preferred to Red Shirt rather than play prep.

http://special.registerguard.com/web/sports/26288747-41/ashaolu-oregon-season-ducks-transfer.html.csp

I think we're all in the same ball park on this issue - but I really think that the issue of the impact of the allure of basketball is crossing into a problem for all kids of multiple backgrounds. Bhullar is a perfect example. Go spend some time in schools with Tamil, Filipino, South Asian and even Euros and you'll see the issue is not owned by one community anymore. Basketball is a passion of many - and a misguided compulsion for some that people have exploited to serve their own ambitions. Coaches, schools, leagues and service providers looking for a quick buck based on kids being wide eyed and looking for the answers they really want to hear.

Agreed, it's still a substantial issue for kids of African decent, but it's a "socio-economic and community card" more than race. Even the TDSB has a data set that's far more reaching the culture, LOI

http://www.tdsb.on.ca/wwwdocuments/about_us/external_research_application/docs/LOI2011.pdf

(Granted, when you look at the schools that report in the most needy, you'll see many basketball powers - but even still, if you go down to Regent Park, it's not the same cultural profile over the past ten years).

I'd love to hear Coach Melnik or Coach Clement on this issue. Even Coach Gordo!

It's a great discussion that brings out some incredible insights from those who are posting. Thanks to all of you who are replying. I'm learning a lot too.

great input rerun!!!

it is definitely mixed messages and differences of opinions. The biggest factor to families and players is: who do you listen to?

Education should be taken seriously even for the elite athletes!

I think you're missing the point of what everybody has said if you think that the idea of higher education isn't important. I think the main thing that everyone has been discussing is education and the access to it is paramount and if you've been blessed enough and gifted enough to use basketball to gain that education you should. But how?
No one is suggesting giving a pass rather how do we best meet the needs of these talented young people without watching them get exploited. There are still many who's personal animosity would rather see them fail than to reach a certain level of success, especially if they don't do it the way some think they should.
If you love the game, then we as parents, teachers, and coaches must make it our duty to do what we can to advance the students and the sport. That includes a good education, good coaching and a helping hand when needed.

This is all very new to me and this article really opened my eyes.Thanks for sharing with us your wisdom.

thewayIseeit wrote:Youngblood

You are beginning to base your arguments on the Canadian inferiority complex???

It doesn't make any sense. Canada has one of the strongest economies in the world. In fact it may be #1 right now. We have a different value system here in Canada. We value academics more than athletics. We value a more conservative approach to doing business, banking, real estate, etc, etc. This is (although very simplified) one of the reasons why Canada remained economically very very strong after the US led economic failure of 2008. Over there most people are wallowing in debt, but they still drive expensive SUV's, have huge houses that they can't afford, etc. It is the same thing with the NCAA. Yes they do make lots of $$, but to what end? The Universities are making Hundreds of Millions of dollars and are using their athletes (by giving them $100 thousand for 4 years) WHAT A JOKE!! Why doesn't some of that money go to the players and their families?? It is the complete farming of student athletes in the pursuit of big buisiness. Here in Canada we have a DIFFERENT value system. Why do you think NCAA Scholarships are only a 1 year contract? If you break your ankle of knee, you could be out of an education. DO you think Americans are going to take care of a Canadian kid?

I agree with you that the US does put more $$ into sports programming, but I wont agree with you that it is better for kids. The strong media influence in the US (and here mind you) promotes the KOBE's and LEBRON's of the world; the dangle this carrot in front of us for the hopes and dreams that we can become the next "GREAT ONE". How many kids have gone wrong in that quest for the dream? Staying in Canada offers a very very big safety net for our own student athletes. Networking, connections, job opportunities, etc, etc. If you are lucky and blessed with the same work ethic / skill / athleticism, like Pangos, Wiggins, etc, etc. then you can make $$ playing this game, and maybe the states is best for you, however, for most of us that is not the case.

First you talk about Canadian Universities offering a BETTER education than the IVY LEAGUES!! Now #1 economy in the WORLD! wow! I understand Canadian pride don't get me wrong, but this is borderline ignorance!

This information isn't coming off the top of my head. According to the IMF, European Union and big business here in Canada and the US, Canada at this moment has the worlds strongest economy. Not in size, or GDP, but in strength, risk factors, balanced portfolio, large amount of natural resources. If you would like to prove this wrong than I would love to hear it.

As for the Universities, it seems as though you are even influenced by the Stars and Stripes of the US.

thewayIseeit wrote:This information isn't coming off the top of my head. According to the IMF, European Union and big business here in Canada and the US, Canada at this moment has the worlds strongest economy. Not in size, or GDP, but in strength, risk factors, balanced portfolio, large amount of natural resources. If you would like to prove this wrong than I would love to hear it.

You are correct. Since the financial meltdown of 2008, Canada's economy has outperformed all other G8 nations, primarily due to our natural resource development and our strict banking regulations. (Interesting aside; the current Prime Minister loves to brag about this but, while head of a right-wing think tank and again as leader of the opposition, he constantly argued for deregulation of the banking industry.)

As for the Universities, it seems as though you are even influenced by the Stars and Stripes of the US.

If you are arguing that all US universities are overrated and of poor quality then I'm afraid the numbers don't back you up. The three most respected global rankings of post-secondary universities are the ARWU, QS World University Rankings, and Times Higher Education World University Rankings. None of them are US-based. The 2010 rankings are once again chock full of US universities.

ARWU:
Top 4 schools are all American
8 of the top 10 are American
17 of the top 19 are American
54 of the top 100 are American. At least 44 of them play D1 basketball. (It might actually be higher as I didn't count a couple about which I wasn't 100% certain.)
The country with next most schools is Britain, with 11.
Canada has four schools in the top 100, with Toronto the highest at 27.

QS:
While the top school is British (Cambridge) 3 of the top 5 are American.
6 of the top 10 are American.
13 of the top 20 are American.
The country with the next most schools is once again Britain, with 4.
Canada has 1 school in the top 20; McGill at 19.

THEWUR:
Top 5 are all American.
7 of the top 10 are American.
15 of the top 20 are American.
The country with the next most schools is also Britain, with 3.
Once again, Canada has 1 school in the top 20; Toronto at 17.

While I'm not arguing that the quality of education in all US universities is better than in Canada or that many CIS schools don't offer a great education, the reality is that there are a lot of outstanding universities in the US. To equate the stereotype of "Basket-weaving U" with all US universities is far to simplistic. Besides, US universities don't have a monopoly on making things easy for top athletes. I have taught and/or coached a number of former and current CIS athletes when they went to Xavier and even some of them have been provided with reduced course loads; told to take easier credits that weren't always needed for their desired major; and directed into the sections with "cooperative" instructors.

Xavier thanks for all the info. It was an interesting read and very well prepared. However just because the ranking agencies including ARWU are not US based it doesn't mean they aren't influenced by a very strong US lobby.

Times Higher Education Ranking is UK based, and there is no doubt of the close relationship between the US and the UK. This stuff like most other things in the US is all marketing. They are in the game to make $$$ no doubt.

Good points however

Here's the challenge with the surveys -

ARWU is Science based on how much a school publishes and how many awards their faculty has won and their alumni contributes. Aside from U of T, our Canadian schools are tiny compared to the big schools across the world - including McGill and Queens (Even York just breaks the Top 500 - don't tell that to Schullich folks). Even still, look at where people playing D1 from Canada are going - I didn't see New Mex State there . . .

The QS is closer to a fair representation - but the theory of a major part of their subset is weak (surveys) and other parts based on international admissions. That's like saying Sim "Choosing" New Mex was a careful decision that was based on that being his choice - not last resort.

While the last survey set seem to have a more balanced methodology, again the size of a school changes the results in favor of many Universities. Most importantly, No New Mex State.

In all seriousness, the University Elite are still US dominated - but these surveys show little to say that a trip down south is a payday. I do have more respect for Tyler Ennis' brother who is going to Rice University, a school that scored well on these surveys - glad to see that. But let's be fair - school is an expensive investment that is all about finishing as quickly as possible with as little expense as possible while having the opportunity to excellerate your pay as many times possible.

Hope a "Communications" degree does that . . .

going back to the original title "prep school doesn't mean D1 scholarship"

I believe that this is going to become much much more evident in the next couple of years. With the number of average-good talent going down this will be a title many will think about.

Acie Earl,

Wow, do you sound like a bitter Canadian high school, college or oba coach. Come on already layoff Sim Bhullar and New Mexico State. The kid is in university and not in jail so let's celebrate that. He is one of many Canadians attending that school and I think that's great for us as Canadians and more importantly the kids who will leave there with a degree. One question, How is Ryerson any better???? Exactly! But I don't hear you killing Aaron best (80 percent!student) for making that decision.....hmmmm I wonder why?

My next point, you preach a lot about kids pursuing education and blah blah blah..... And than you mention how Ryan wright should be praised for the great path he has chosen.....Really? He transferred from one of the top university in the NCAA UCLA to Oklahoma?? That's a great decision academically or was he more frustrated about playing time. But I guess that's ok in your books and I wonder why??

At the end of the day Sim Bhular is doing what's best for him...Everyone functions at different academic levels both Canadian and American and each individual has to choose the path that they, not you God...sorry I mean Acie Earl, is best for them. So instead of spreading hate why don't you try to spread love.....but wait it's Canada we can't unless it's hockey. Smh!! The last time I checked Sim Bhullar Is an incredible kid that had academic issue and was dealing with a learning disability and if you feel it's cool to make fun of a kid with LD making it to university, God bless your soul.

Lastly, no matter what level of education you have it doesn't matter because I have many friends who've gone to top university in Canada and USA and are struggling to get a job especially one in the area of their study. So let's not harp on the school but rather let's see where him and others are in the next 6 years. Than you can pass your judgement God...I mean Acie Earl.

I lied one more thing, just so everyone is clear. Going to prep is definately not for all kids, As a matter of fact it's not for most, however, kids and parents will continue to pursue those types of options as long as people like Acie Earl continue to just worry about being part of the problem rather than spending time becoming part of the solution. Spread love not hate and maybe people might actually listen to you because right now you just sound bitter:(

Realfiction you really need to learn to read. My bitterness is towards people who shovel half the facts like yourself.

I guess the investment of four years tuition at Ryerson is not as valuable as New Mexico State. I guess Roy Rana is a poor option as a coach to prepare you for life and on the court.

I guess you missed the part about Ryan Wright being a three time Academic All American in both conferences and doing Grad work.

I guess you missed the point that a kid with Special Education Background can get into University and not have to find out in August that he lost the scholarship. I guess you missed the point that Sim's school choice isn't the issue as much as the lack of care that's provided to students when they sign on down south to prep school and they're left scrambling.

Maybe I missed the point too. Maybe YOU are right Wrongfacts. Maybe I am the issue that's creating the problem. Maybe if I throw out cheesy cliches like becoming part of the solution and sending blessings our non hockey players will thrive and the world will be as one.

I guess saying prayers and eatin vitamins will work for all of you young Factomaniacs!

Tell you what Friction, why don't you look at the LAST six years of players who went down south prep or not and tell me what's happened with them. Or ramble on about how positive you are or something.

Acie Earl or should I say God, I guess I hit a soft spot. Man are you protective of Ryerson and Roy Rana...again I wonder why? No one is saying Roy is or isn't a good coach. I'm talking about Ryerson, where it ranks academically compared to other schools in Canada and the USA. I have no problem with kids attending any university they find suitable for them but you on the other hand, find it appropriate to come on here and disrespect new Mexico state and the kids that attend the school.

In regards to Ryan, I'm proud of him but I feel that award would be more special if he stayed at UCLA for all those years and not just two, just my opinion.

Lost his scholarship in August.... What are you talking about? This is my exact point, you are assuming you know what happened and you know nothing. Please if you know so much about his situation please explain it to us all??? You didn't even know the kid was LD, you bitter CIS/high school or OBA coach. Why do you never put any blame on the schools where he spent 3 years in order to be qualified.....oh ya its a Canadian school. The Prep schools in this case not all helped him tremendously and now he at least has a chance to qualify and have his schooling paid for. But I guess for you it would be better for him to spend 45,000 dollars to attend Xavier.

As for your last statement about kids who have gone to prep or not and what happened to them.......this is my point God I mean Acie Earl. You cannot blame prep schools alone. We here have our responsibility as well. Any way, enjoy posting your negativity, hopefully it makes you feel better.

This isn't a forum about Canadian patriotism it's about whether we support our athletes, why we don't, and why we cry when the ones who want the best athletic opportunity go to the States?

The fact that we question this is highly patriotic. Why shouldn't we try to get the best out of our athletics, or are we so different that we should allow the status qou. To assume that Canada can't change because we've been able to avoid a dip in our economy is peripheral at best and serendipitous to the argument, and to assume that since Kevin and Andrew are blessed with talent and an incredible work ethic that everyone else should settle is, to be honest kindah sad. Striving for mediocrity is not the Canadian way whether it's academic or athletic.

Well said Youngblood.

Typically said Wrongfacts.

Check the history of the posts, the Gta schools that create an environment that makes it ok not to educate these families of the Clearinghouse right from grade EIGHT have a role in this too. Pickering was questioned off the bat. The Bhullar's schools are not beyond blame at all. They have a part in this too.

But that being said, part of that education is to have ALL of those schools deal with the fact he has Special Ed needs and provide to resources to ensure he had the best situation for a scholarship. If his learning difficulties were that bad, he wouldn't even get into any university and even so, if it was my kid, I wouldn't want them going to ANY university if they were not capable of meeting the expectations of being a STUDENT ATHLETE. Clearly he made the grades to get into a school but perhaps you need to "share the love" and help people understand how you're the expert. That would involve providing full facts.

I'm glad to see in the last part that you include yourself in the equation of needing to help fix the situation. What have YOU done? Tutored a kid? Forced them to do homework instead of playing PS3 after school? Read the Clearinghouse requirements? Brought a case of Mr. Noodles to feed a prep team player that was sold on a dream and was left with online courses and an unsupervised apartment for four? (go read the article post from a few days ago if you need a refresher cuz those situations aren't uncommon at all)

I'm POSITIVE I'm enjoying posting the negativity, it is directed at your nonesense. It isnt even ignorance because you choose to selectively read.

Bottom line folks, call it negative or hate or whatever, the point is clear.

Don't put yourself in situations where you are not in control of your options. Do your homework, in school and about your school. Doesn't matter if your prep bound or never get off the bench in Tier 2 Peel, there's no substitute for being educated and hardworking.

There's no backdoor hook up to D1 anymore. Being positive is fine, but being a sucker is another story. New Mexico State is fine when your talking about a FREE education and a chance to develop as a player. No offense to Mullings and the other Canadians there, but if you're being featured as a possible NBA player in the New York Times perhaps PAYING to go to ANY D1 school for ANY year speaks to a problem in the system. I'm positive about that.